REMOVE MASTIFF ! OMG !

[Sir_Named]

@LordloshBang The Mastiff is 100% weaker.
It’s not even necessarily easier to hit, since you have to ads and get git just right, whereas the PK can just pop one out.
Sure, the PK has one less bullet and needed to reload fully, but it was way more consistent and had more range.

Or do you really think the devs would replace the PK with a stronger gun? Which would defeat the purpose of swapping them...

[heme725]

I find it personally offensive that anyone can consider the PK harder to use than the Mastiff but if AoD wishes to move on from the discussion then fair enough. We will definitely never agree on this topic.

[LordloshBang]

This game is all about ADS, so just because you have to ADS with a weapon, doesn`t mean it require more skill to be used, this is completely untrue.

What i think is they replaced an OP gun(PK was called that by many pro players and streamers) with another.

For me Mastiff is way easier to use and to land your shots with it. And this could be seen from many pro players. They were missing a lot more shots with PK, than with a Mastiff.

I can talk from personal experience too. I have never died so much from a PK, compare to now. 

PK shots were way easier to dodge, than a Mastiff one. Even if you counter strafe and lure the player, he still land a shot, even if its lighter damage, but its still land, because of the huge radius of the pellets.

Damage per pellets should have been lower, as well as their radius.

You may not agree with it i don`t care, this is my opinion, based on what i watch from top players and based on my personal experience.

As far as the Devs goes, are we talking about the same Devs, that needed like 1 year+ to try to balance the legends? Wraith was completely broken for way too long. Pathfinder was super Op for way too long as well.

They needed like so much time and they constantly nerfed Wraith over and over again, and she is still S tier, which speaks for itself how brokenly OP she was.

Should we talk how crap and for how long some of the legends, like Octane and Mirage was?

How this game has top 2 legends for so long, and they obviously couldn`t balance them ?

There was like 3-4 viable legends, out of 11(at that time).

They needed century to make more legends viable.

PK and Wingman was completely broken for way too long.

They needed so much time to fix them, and still they are bit OP.

Are we talking the same Devs that think that auto-revive would be a good thing ? Devs that actually punish you by taking the kills out of you, in a FPS game? :D

And the list goes on and on.

So excuse me to not believe the devs. :D

[Sir_Named]

@LordloshBang Pk has the same spread ads or hip-firing, which made it really easy to hit shots.

Sure, the Mastiff might hit a few pellets because of the spread, but because it’s only a few pellets, it’ll do very minimal damage.

Also, what do you mean it was “easier to dodge” a PK shot? The shotguns might as well be hitscan because the travel time would mean next to nothing in such a close range. (It’s not nothing, but it really isn’t something you can dodge.)

Reviving is part of the game. Buffs to certain characters to aid reviving isn’t necessarily bad. Also, this is not really relevant to the topic.

The devs have also done a bunch of good things, like making Revenant and Loba, and like everything else.

[LordloshBang]

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@Sir_Named wrote:
@LordloshBangPk has the same spread ads or hip-firing, which made it really easy to hit shots.

Sure, the Mastiff might hit a few pellets because of the spread, but because it’s only a few pellets, it’ll do very minimal damage.

Also, what do you mean it was “easier to dodge” a PK shot? The shotguns might as well be hitscan because the travel time would mean next to nothing in such a close range. (It’s not nothing, but it really isn’t something you can dodge.)

Reviving is part of the game. Buffs to certain characters to aid reviving isn’t necessarily bad. Also, this is not really relevant to the topic.

The devs have also done a bunch of good things, like making Revenant and Loba, and like everything else.

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This is completely untrue. If you don`t know what your talking about, just don`t do it.

Mastiff has much wider spread. If you don`t believe me you can always check it on the firing range.

As far as the easier to dodge, this is true. I for example have different strafe pattern against shotgun, compare to other weapons like SMG/AR and so on. This is for obvious reason.

As far as reviving its part of all BR(If i`m not wrong), tho the other titles don`t mess with it, because it stupid to do so. 

If you beat a player and can kill you, you just do it, like Warzone, unless his buddy attacks you and prevent it from happen.

Yet we have not only revive in Apex, but knockdown shields(which is more than enough), we have revive, we have respawn, and now mobile respawn beacon which is another stupid new thing that was added to the game.

And yeah messing with Revive is a bad thing. Right now, every pre-made is playing with Lifeline in their team in ranking, guess why! Its a **** must, which is a bad thing. And its a must, because of a broken mechanics.

Revive in BR is there for a few reasons. Because in a fight you engage, and even if you are winning this fight, you are taking damage, and in a 3v3 game, there is a big chance someone of your team get down, even tho you will kill the rest of the enemy squad. And if you not give the enemy enough time, you will be able to revive your downed teammate.

In every other titles, there is nothing to safe you when you go down. In Apex you have knockdown shields, which is more than enough to prevent a fast kill, but there shouldn`t be any more b.c., like Lifeline shield, auto-revive, dome fast revive and even the backpack revive, which is completely OP.

By adding layer after layer, you are actually make the game worst, and you are punishing the better player in the situation.

In a game where you need to keep an eye on your resources, aka ammo and heals, auto-revive option is making you waste way more ammo/heals and stretch the battles(by the wrong way) and make the third party even worst and you are way more prone to them.

Yeah some people are happy with it, cause they are playing pre-made and are getting serious advantages, against random squad with this completely stupid and broken mechanics.

Like 99,99% of the premade have Lifeline in their teams. Rogue switched to Lifeline, Reps is starting to playing in ranked, and are saying how OP Lifeline is, and guess why is that.

Reviving should be equal to everyone and should not be touched - 5/6 seconds for revive and thats it. No shields, no b.c. You have knockdown shields, which is up to 750 damage, which is enough to safe your **** in a situation where your team is winning and to prevent a kill.

I said in the other threads, when this change was made, my K/D/R drops, which is always a bad thing, and i suddenly don`t get worst.

I have games with 500, 1000, even 1500 damage with no kills, and the sole reason is the b.c. auto-revive.

Also auto-revive allows for undeserved kills, aka useless ally, who are skiping 90% of the fight, but comes right at time, and do 1-2-3 shots at auto-revived target and steal your kill.

How is that fair ?

How is it fair to make me take more risk, just because i was the better player in the given situation?

Lowering the K/D/R and taking your deserved kills is a bad thing in any given game.

[Sir_Named]

@LordloshBang
We’ve been over this. Because Mastiff has a wider spread, that means you can hit easier, but you hit less actual pellets, which results in low damage.

You can kind of strafe shotguns, but if they miss it’s probably because they were thrown off by the strafing, not because you actually dodge the bullets.

Warzone has the gulag, and Fortnite has reboot vans.

I think Lifeline is semi-balanced, but I’ll concede on that. But what about Mirage invis revive? Or Gibby fast revive? Those mess with the “base revive mechanics” but I haven’t seen you talk much about them. Or Bangalore smoke revive? Or Caustic gas revive? 
Also, you say that the revive things stretch out the game and make you more prone to third parties.
A. Having a medic who can revive safely is good against third parties.
B. There are other abilities that slow down the gameplay in more significant ways, like Caustic’s entire kit, or Wattson’s entire kit.

Also, let’s say we wipe Lifeline’s slate clean. What abilities would you give a COMBAT MEDIC?
(Like Octane said, caps doesn’t mean yelling. I’d prefer to italicize, but I am writing this in quick reply and that’s not an option. Just want to emphasize the role Lifeline is kind of meant to be.)

Also, without any special revives, the overall ttk becomes really high, and third partying would become the #1 best way to play. Just sit in a good location and shoot enemies from a distance. (Which is already what happens most of the time, but it would happen even more.)

Edit: We should probably start toning these unrelated parts down, since this is supposed to be about the Mastiff, not reviving mechanics.

[Sir_Named]

@LordloshBang ????
The Mastiff has a wider spread.
You can only get 120+ damage if you hit all or 90% of the pellets.
That is harder if you have a wider spread.

You don’t really ‘dodge’, the enemy just misses. Their cursor was just off, not the bullets actually missing.

[heme725]

@LordloshBang There are points for and against Lifeline's revive but it is currently a problem that needs to be fixed. This topic isn't about reviving so lets move back to the Mastiff.

Your points seem like you're misunderstanding what other posters have mentioned and selectively dismissing key points.

If you're discussing TTK you can't mention damage without talking about the rate of fire. Thats why DPS is relevant. The Triple Take does more damage per shot than the R-99 but we all know which gun kills faster. There's only one situation where the damage is more important than the DPS and that's when firing the first round of any gun. The first shot of a Mastiff or PK outclasses every other gun but the lower rate of fire balances them out in drawn out fights.

I'm not sure if it was intentional but try not to change the meaning of other poster's points to make it easier to refute them. It's a little tiring.

Also whoever mentioned the Gulag that was a poor point to make. Like AOD said its more of a respawn than revive and is kind of off topic. Though I can understand its getting a bit heated in here.

[Xx__Miku831__xX]

@heme725 Actually that low fire rate didn't balance at all.

As you mentioned, Damage really matters when firing the first round. And Mastiff can land 100+ damage if you can really aim, and 2 shots can take out a purple shield character (or red shield if you are lucky to land headshots). This only takes 0.625 second to do this (without bolt). But with R99, since it has a low damage of shots, so we can just use DPS to calculate, which is 198. That means we need ~1 second to kill a purple shield guy. If you are too bad that cannot land 2 shots of 100+damage on the opponent, then you are doomed. But if you do, then your opponent will be melted.

The problem is that things become worse if you are already injured, mastiff will likely kills you in one shot, so unless you also bring a gun with high-damage per shot (ignoring DPS), you cannot win a fight like this.

[Sir_Named]

@Xx__Miku831__xX Unless, like heme said, it’s a drawn out fight. Or at a range further than like 20 meters. (Or feet? I’m from the Eagle Land, so I don’t instinctively know how long 20 meters is.)