You can't Saber Attack immediately after Dodging anymore

[Bab0osh]

@VetteC5RX
I see that regarding Iden and Han it was a misunderstanding, you meant talking about removing the railing on their explosive attacks and not adding splash damage on their shots, so I agree with you.

But for Kylo I don’t share your point of vue. The last update changed the Frenzy allowing the last hit to pass through the block.

I’ve no opinion about Bossk and Palp.

[VetteC5RX]

@Bab0osh I use Kylo regularly and am a lvl 293 with him and I can tell you 100% right now I’m seeing his 3rd strike NOT bypass blocks for saber users. ... the only time this is happening is if the opponent poorly times a dodge during Frenzy and the last strike lands; otherwise the opponent can simply block or block + backwards dodge and Frenzy didn’t break or bypass.

Also, Frenzy leaps REGULARLY launch Kylo into the air either on the initial or 2nd leap (its intermittent) which, again, makes the ability useless. 

Im playing on console so I don’t know what platform you’re using but I can tell you that on console it IS an issue right now. 

That aside; by adding an “ability” restriction to Frenzy on the affected opponent what you essentially gain is a limit of risk to use the ability. The ability can and always will be able to be evaded; even IF the 3rd strike issue is resolved a properly timed evade will always be available to avoid that strike; that being said, that results in an a significant potential for zero damage dealt. I can live with that, however, the risk of use of abilities on Kylo while Frenzy is active opens up too much liability. Frenzy isn’t controllable so being Pushed, Unleashed, Mighted, Shoulder charged, Dash Strike, Defensive Rush, AO Pushed ... every one of those abilities can be triggered during Frenzy to not only damage but knock back Kylo and essentially use Kylos own ability to turn the fight back against him ... I do this all the time to players using him. 

The minor tweak would remove that use liability and would at least mean that if the ability didn’t yield damage at least Kylo isn’t at risk of damage exposure himself by simply using it. 

[VetteC5RX]

@Bab0osh  ... Re: Bosk & Palp ... I should clarify that my suggestion to make them heavier isn’t just with regard to their jump height but also their duration. 

Both Bosk and Palp have a “float” ability. In the case of Palp he has exceptional and immediate evade as well as immediate crowd control recovery (similar to Boba) which makes it exceptionally difficult for saber users to register his hit box .... similarly with Bosk his in air height and duration and speed can keep him perpetually out of saber strike distance; that combined with his strong proximity abilities is imbalanced. 

[jc311277]

I invite you to read my post @Bab0osh , where did I say you're against? I said I don't agree and nobody I know or seen  agree with what you've wrote in this thread  and when your first post is "I’m sorry but I don’t agree with this report."

Then you make some points about how the older dodge + attack to the back mechanic was too easy to proceed , it needs more skill and how it was frustrating the best way to play was unskilled. Another post you actually write "Change the current dodge + attack mechanics: no." (Which looked like you're meaning no to changing back to the way it was)

These points are what I was saying people I know , including myself don't agree with. I'll tell you why, and these points are for saber combat only in HvV. So if you're a Heroes v Villains player you should agree the game mode itself is revolved around super cheap mechanics, especially saber combat mainly rewarded by spamming a saber , spamming block and spamming abilities which is usually rewarded due to poor input server lag (causing failed blocks and dodges etc) and even more cheap was how grouped teams chained all of these against solo players or people not very good at the game. So the game mode itself is based on cheap play and this is the main reason why people including myself preferred the easier mechanic to dodge + attack to the back. Why after 2 and a half years should we now learn a new method? It won't change the way the game mode itself is played by almost every player I've seen on the enemy team or else i would agree with everything you've said especially if saber combat was left uninterrupted. 

[Bab0osh]

@VetteC5RX I play an average of 45-50 hours per week on PS4, I’ve several lvMAX character and my smallest lightsaber level is 200, I’ve no problem with the 3rd hit of Frenzy that do pass the block.

Obviously:
- dodging with a perfect timing can make you evading from the 3rd hit of Frenzy,
- when you use Frenzy, you have to follow your target with the camera to allow the ability to reach its target on each stroke.

You may have more than 28ms ping, you’re internet speed is maybe the problem.

Frenzy has indeed a problem of verticality, an issue happens when there is little obstacle between Kylo and the target, this may be fixed someday I hope.

Kylo Ren’s Frenzy is currently one of the most OP ability, if you’re having difficulties using it against Force users just wait them to perform/miss their abilities on you and try the most to anticipate their actions.

I’ve lvMAX Palp and I admit he’s really hard to hit. Some tips:
- keep blocking and try to move towards him all the time but always keep 1 dodge left,
- when you’re really close to him he’ll must dodge, don’t do nothing and wait after the dodge to attack
- if he does 2 dodges use the dodge you kept to reach him, and if he jumps after the dodge(s), use a force ability or a jump attack
- if he’s used to dodge in your back, don’t attack him when you reach him, turn your camera and immediacy attack in your back.

I don’t like the “jumpy Bossk players” but same tips as for Palp: wait him to jump to use abilities/jump attacks. You can also keep your camera high in the air to properly time an attack when Bossk land on the ground.

[Bab0osh]

@jc311277 Hi.
You probably have more than 28-30ms ping, your internet speed is maybe the reason or the servers are too far from the place where you live. No problem to be regretted concerning the server delays except for the application of the damage of the Han grenade (you can confirm this on YouTube watching gameplays of players with a normal average ping).

I will say what’s happening for my opponents in HvV when they spam: I use the counter-attack mechanic to kill them all, and when I say “all” I mean I kill them even if they are more than one spamming me at the same moment. You just need stamina. When your stamina is low, dodge and jump with precautions.

I never spam in HvV and have no problem to outplay spammers.

[Bab0osh]

@jc311277 Frustration is part of the Human life. I understand how frustrated you and your friends are, I was also frustrated to see yet another gameplay change. But there is no bug here.

May the Force be with you, keep enjoying this game. There is more good things to enjoy than bad things to deplore.

[VetteC5RX]

@Bab0osh I’m on Xbox and my console is hardwired to my gateway with a consistent strong connection; my ping didn’t exceed 18ms. That isn’t the issue. 

Frenzy is far from OP. These “tips” people give aren’t realistic. If you play that much then you realize that in the fluidity of gameplay you encounter opponents whom you don’t know which abilities they many have in cool down. This “notion” that a squad of random players will regularly stick together isn’t what really happens ... regardless, what I’m getting at is if you approach an opponent initially and engage them you don’t know what abilities they do or don’t have in cool down. 

to take your advice I would have to sacrifice opportunities to use Frenzy until I could confirm that their abilities have been used, are in cool down, and can’t be used against me. ... I’m sorry but that’s poor quality. This amounts to an ability with a great degree of inter-gameplay condition; far more than any other ability in the game. 

the fact that frenzy can be evaded with absolutely zero damage dealt makes the ability FAR from OP ... very far. 

I can’t speak to PS but on Xbox; the 3rd strike doesn’t bypass or break blocks and I have video of this. It was posted here and nothing was done about it. I don’t know if the issue is specific to Xbox but other players here have agreed that the 3rd strike doesn’t hit as it should. 

All of that being said Frenzy is far from OP .... you have VERY limited opportunity to use it, it’s still broken (at least for Xbox), and even if it does get fixed it doesn’t deal high damage, AND will always be able to be 100% evaded. 

that’s incredibly poor logic. And so is the requirement for the manual camera reorientation! 

You “can” combine frenzy with freeze to try and guarantee a hit but that’s garbage also because that means you have to stack and burn two abilities together just to get a single hit! If that’s the case damage output should be increased or the cool down times reduced. Combining Freeze and frenzy is further poor because Freeze can (and usually does) have a far larger AOE than Frenzy so having to run to close distance until Frenzy is available you risk having Freeze wear off; what happens is your opponent is already in block by the time the first lap lands. 

When you compare the opportunity of use and effectiveness of Frenzy to the abilities of every other character you come up short! Nobody else has abilities that require such a narrow window and extensive set of circumstances in order to use AND, for an ability with a damage output that’s in-line with a regular ol saber strike. 

not OP bud, far from it. Do you know how many times I’ve saved Frenzy to use against a Luke, Annakin, or Obi who’s at a sliver of health and legit zero damage was done? ... And that’s after multiple uses as Frenzy has a short cool down. The block break issue is a big deal and it’s not working on Xbox and if that would get fixed I think it would be an improvement, however, I still maintain that because of:

the way the gameplay transpires in HvV / HS

the very limited scope of use of Frenzy

its limited damage output 

for those 3 reasons the addition i recommended of opponent ability restriction is valid. The only thing that does is prevents Kylo from being injured during the ability ... and speaking of injured ... the damage reduction during frenzy is a joke. 

[Bab0osh]

@VetteC5RX
At this point I don’t really know what to answer. Although you seem to be playing Kylo Ren often, you seem to be missing out on the best practices that allow this character to be one of the strongest in the game at the moment.

The biggest possible mistake on Kylo is to do the Frenzy after the Freeze: this combo has no added value, it's exactly like watching an opponent for 2 seconds of play without doing anything, each being blocking, then to launch the Frenzy. The only difference is that with the Freeze + Frenzy combo an attack will pass for sure. The best thing to do after a Freeze is to reach the back of the target and perform a double-attack combo (a very very short jump, then a mid-air attack, and another attack as soon as possible when you land on the ground).

Frenzy must be used either by surprise (in the middle of a chain of dodges and attacks, especially when the opponent has just dodged and begins to lack endurance) or immediately after a Force Attraction just before the target will start to slide along the ground and will be vulnerable for a long enough time to pass 2 attacks and almost all the time the 3rd since it passes the block. There is no problem of “opponents with abilities that can interrupt Frenzy”, because any ability of any character can be interrupted during its duration time, the real problem is “I need to use Frenzy when people don’t expect it or when the can’t deal with it properly”, like I explained with examples just before.

Even if the 3rd attack don’t passes through the block for Xbox users, which is an annoying bug that should be fix, Frenzy has a very low cooldown and really correct damages (going from “correct” to “huge” with his 6th starcard) and bypass the natural limit of offensiveness of lightsaber characters offering 3 more attacks really often, self-guided attacks on top of that.

If you feel so hurt and disappointed about the Frenzy, I can assure you that it is not a disadvantage in HvV but a huge advantage. I can maybe clip a gameplay video and upload it to my channel so you can see for yourself if you want. In any case at the moment on PS4, with no problem concerning the registration of the 3rd hit, even Kylos below lv20 manage to give a significant advantage to their team, to finish first in the score and to win just by using very often the Frenzy.

Don’t forget a thing: when you’re playing Kylo and faces some players, scared about being canceled by an ability during your Frenzy, for their part they’re scared to see it coming and as a result they are forced to change their way to play.

Well, have fun playing and may the Force be with you.

[VetteC5RX]

@Bab0osh I do use Kylo often and could probably write the book on best practices; and have game recordings available on my game feed to show it.

i don’t use Freeze + Frenzy; I was using that as an example.

I have no idea why the 3rd strike doesn’t bypass blocks on Xbox; I know that it’s supposed to. 

My issue with it (bug aside) is that if you look at every other character they’ve been given modifications to minimize vulnerability when using abilities that might expose them: Obi gets reduction and knock back resistance during push; Vader gets the same during choke (and can now block during), Grevious has knockback resistance during UA... Kylos Frenzy got nothing. 

My defense against Kylos works about as well as Lysol .. a well timed dodge + crowd control ability; not only do I get zero damage taken but I damage Kylo and control him. That’s a big exposure! I melt even high level Kylos with this. 

By only allowing the ability to be used “by surprise” it drastically limits the proper chances of use and, IMO, the potential REALISTIC damage output is too low to justify the ability as balanced or good. 

Kylos 6th card is rarely worth it for me; because of the 3rd hit bug rarely does Fenzy ever do any damage ... I actually have to run the card which enables Kylo to leap further for Fenzy; without it the AOE is so small the ability is almost useless because of the high mobility environment the Devs have turned this game into. The dodge factor has become so prevalent opponents are in out of the AOE before it can be triggered. 

The 3rd strike issue is major because at least if that worked the risk could somewhat be justified in that there’s a realistic potential of damage deal but as is now, it’s moot. ... I started to believe the Devs removed that aspect and never put it in the notes. 

There are a slew of other strange “bugs”, at least in the Xbox version .. take a look at the clips below. The game clearly “recognizes” the ability usage but applies no affect nor refunds the ability. This happens often. I have posted this various times in these forums to no feedback and no response. 

https://youtu.be/sLzwwWQyysQ

https://youtu.be/cwvZ7g2XOd8