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Re: EA please tell us the requirements for Ultra Settings (with stable fps)

by Gooseyness
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Re: EA please tell us the requirements for Ultra Settings (with stable fps)

@SimmerGeorge  You certainly don't need to worry about disappointing me.  After all, you're the one whose computer isn't cooperating.

 

Just to double-check, these tests are in a new save in a clean Sims 4 user folder, with absolutely no content transferred from your old user folder?  No mods or custom content, no old sims, nothing?  If you haven't done that yet, please try it now.

 

San Myshuno isn't the best place to test your framerates.  The world is not exactly optimized, and pretty much everyone has at least relatively poor performance there.  I usually test in Willow Creek, then compare it with Sulani, although most other worlds (not Del Sol Valley) are fine.  Please also test with post processing disabled in-game—I've noticed some strange fps drops with it enabled, not a steady hit but more like random lower framerates that don't correlate to any obvious cause.

 

I'd also be interested to see an hwinfo log with no vertical sync enabled at all.  I know the screen tearing is bad, but at least see how the graphics card performs when it's not limited.  Then you can compare it with the effects of enabling vertical sync or setting a max frame rate within the Nvidia Control Panel.

 

Your graphics card should absolutely be capable of running Sims 4 on ultra settings.  The hwinfo logs show it's not working hard at all, really nowhere near its theoretical capacity, and that's the reason why you're seeing such poor performance.  The stubborn question is why.

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I don't work for EA. I'm just trying to help fellow players with their games.
Message 31 of 57 (292 Views)
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Re: EA please tell us the requirements for Ultra Settings (with stable fps)

[ Edited ]
★★★★★ Apprentice

I have to admit I am exhausted from doing so many tests the last week but I thought I'd get it over with and tried a few more. I played for only like 15-20 minutes though:

 

First I tried disabling v-sync in game and had nvidia set to "use 3d application setting" for v-sync. The screen-tearing was terrible, fps reached max 104fps or something and min 28fps with drops and spikes all the time. The save I use, like with the last log too, is the new save created after re-installing, the folder is brand new and there is absolutely nothing from the old folder in there. The old folder is saved away in an external hard drive atm. 

When I did this I noticed GPU power slightly raised, but memory load stayed the same and CPU usage in still really low (which could be normal for this game?) 

"no game v-sync, 3d application setting" link: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1TRfdyqOWGG9E7lhWfzSB9rz5IPDpBseK/view?usp=sharing

 

Then I went into my NVIDIA control panel and decided I wanted to change v-sync from "let 3d application decide" to "off" just to be sure. The fps stayed at around the same range as above but I noticed a big difference in screen-tearing, is was a lot less noticable, though still visibly there: 

So here's the link to "no game v-sync, nvidia v-sync off" :  https://drive.google.com/file/d/1YH472UExpo_3YCfVhYeuFhVOCpew-57l/view?usp=sharing

 

Finally, I tried to play with no v-sync (either game or nvidia) and no post-processing effects. The fps did improve but didn't really become stable, it just had larger spikes. For example it still reached 28-30 while zoomed out observing an area but it was more rare. During normal gameplay in a busy lot it stayed between 60 and 40 but in residential lots, depending on what the screen was showing it went up to 180 fps pretty often. Also even though the fps got better, the game looked terrible without post-processing effects. Without the blur you can see the low quality set dressing all around the detailed active area in ultra settings and it is super yuck in my eyes. If Post-processing does indeed end up being the problem I'd rather play a this low fps mess than turn this setting off again :P

Here's the link to that then, "no v-sync, no post-processing": https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Ku7bG6n9qrk47L03HVPDL1Z2G1M4XJCL/view?usp=sharing

 

In this logs I am usually jumping into the game right off the bat, not more than a minute waiting so take that into consideration. Usually the way I test this is starting in a residential area and the going to different community lots in Windenburg, Brindleton Bay, Britechester and then back to a residential area. 

Another thing I will try is playing another game from Origin and making a log. The only Origin game I play regurarly is the Sims 4 so I should test another game just to see if I face the same issues. 

Also a question, when uninstalling the Sims 4 on Reno, the game was listed as a 32-Bit application. Is that supposed to be this way? I'm sure I am playing 64-Bit since I am getting the updates and everything but I thought I'd ask. 

 

Now I have to say the amount of research we are doing on this game's performance in this thread is crazy haha, it's almost like playtesting for a game company.  

Message 32 of 57 (279 Views)
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Re: EA please tell us the requirements for Ultra Settings (with stable fps)

[ Edited ]

@SimmerGeorge  If you don't want to go without post processing, that's fine.  Your GPU performance was actually more unsteady with the setting disabled, so at the very least, it's probably not going to help.

 

Interestingly, with the in-game v-sync setting disabled, your GPU did perform somewhat better, although it's still unsteady.  But at least it was running at its peak clock speed for much of the time, and also maintaining a higher core load.  Here are the two readings for the first and second tests:

 

GPU clock + core load 1.png

 

GPU clock + core load 2.png

 

The question is why the load drops, even though the card still has a high enough workload available.  I'm sure you're tired of experimenting, so why not try everything at once?  Please do all of the following, together:

 

  • Leave the in-game v-sync option disabled
  • Leave the Nvidia v-sync disabled as well
  • Clean boot the PC: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/929135/how-to-perform-a-clean-boot-in-windows
  • When it reboots but before playing, go through the Task Manager's background processes list and shut down anything still running that isn't critical—anything from RGB software to MSI Afterburner might still be running
  • Completely disable any antivirus you have
  • Sign into Origin, put it in offline mode, then take your computer completely offline, as in, disable wifi and/or unplug the ethernet cable
  • Disable Origin in-game (even though it shouldn't matter while offline): hover over your username, select Application Settings, then the Origin in-game header, and disable the option at the top
  • Start logging, then launch the game
  • And as always, clean user folder, no existing content, etc.

Let me know how the fps looks, and of course I'll be happy to see another hwinfo log.  Just so you know, I'm asking someone else who's better at this than I am to look at this too, so I don't miss anything useful.

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I don't work for EA. I'm just trying to help fellow players with their games.
Message 33 of 57 (267 Views)
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Re: EA please tell us the requirements for Ultra Settings (with stable fps)

[ Edited ]
★★★★★ Apprentice

@puzzlezaddict Good day. I tried what you suggested just now. I followed your instructions carefully and did everything with no issue. However one thing I couldn't manage was to get rid of Cortana and Microsoft Edge from running in the background, which is almost impossible. I tried ending the task, disabling the programs in settings and restarting, didn't work, they kept running in the background. 

As for the Anti-virus, I only use Windows Defender which I successfully disabled after restarting along with the firewall. 

 

Here's the link to the log:  https://drive.google.com/file/d/1delbd9ROGKpm1EP7h5in_-eVMvUdCDM8/view?usp=sharing

 

One thing I noticed this time around is that (I think) the GPU performance was a bit more stable in the beggining but then it started losing stability completely after like 15-20 minutes. I don't know if that is true or not, so it would be great if you checked for me. I don't know If I did anything to cause the performance to be unstable again. In the beggining I spent some time in CAS and just Sulani at home, I think the instability started when I visited community lots in other worlds. Or another thing I changed halfway during gameplay (which probably has no correlation but I'll mention anyway) was that I turned on The Sims 3 camera which was off for the first 15 minutes. 

Also for every log I make I delete the Sims 4 folder to have a fresh one.

 

One theory I have developed over the course of doing this is that maybe the real problem is my proccessor. The Sims 4 is a weirdly made game and if I'm not mistaken not so well-optimized in general. It's also pretty old right now. I own a Ryzen processor and the AMD Ryzen series only launched in 2017, so 3 years after the release of the game. My assumption is that the game just isn;t well-compatible with the Ryzen processors and the team didn't think it was a problem important enough to fix, since many Simmers either play in systems older than 2017 or they play on laptops which rarely have Ryzen processors, they mostly have Intel.

I think the processor could be bottlenecking my GPU because in order for the GPU to work harder it needs the CPU to work harder. Now if the game can only utilize max 30% of my CPU power but the GPU needs more than that to function at it's best then it hits a ceiling and cannot go over it unless it finds a way to utilize more CPU power. 

It's just a theory I have, since I know many Sims players have the gtx 1060 6gb card and most say it works fine. But I don't know many Sims players with my particular CPU. 

Message 34 of 57 (247 Views)
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Re: EA please tell us the requirements for Ultra Settings (with stable fps)

Hi @SimmerGeorge 

 

I am the person @puzzlezaddict  refereed to as "someone else who's better at this than I am" which may or may not be true. Wink

 

First I like to address your other thread about EA support, and wile I will not comment on the quality of that support, in your case there is just very little they can do.

The support of a gaming developer is for problems caused by the game, in your case it is very unlikely that this is a game problem and much more likely that it is a problem with other components on your system, and then it is jut not something EA would be responsible for nor something they could provide support for.

 

For your theory it is true that your system as a whole is underperforming when you use Sims 4, so it can't be ruled out, that is why I asked Puzzle to see to a newer Bios that might address that problem.  (Unfortunately the only newer BIOS that is available for your board is a beta BIOS, so we should take this as a last resort.)

But I don't think that there is a general problem between the game and AMDs Zen possessors. We would see much more feedback in this regard here if that would be the case.

 

After all what was done I like to get a fresh overview of your system. Please create a new DxDiag and attach it to your next post.

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This is a players helping players forum, I don't work for EA.
Dies ist ein Spieler helfen Spielern Forum, ich arbeite nicht für EA.

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Death closes all: but something ere the end, Some work of noble note, may yet be done, Not unbecoming men that strove with Gods.
Ulysses - Alfred, Lord Tennyson
Message 35 of 57 (210 Views)
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Re: EA please tell us the requirements for Ultra Settings (with stable fps)

★★★★★ Apprentice

@Holger1405 Hey hey, thanks for taking time to help haha. It's so awesome people are so helpful in here. 

Just to clear things up I have to add that my complaint on the other thread is not about me finding a solution to my problem not about me thinking the issue is caused by the game and the game alone. It's more that, no matter what kind of a technical issue one is facing, there shouldn't be advisors telling people to launch video games in safe mode. It was more about having competent people who take time to listen to the issue rather than read down a list of possible solutions that aren't nearly related to the problem, or even are destructive. 

 

I was thinking about trying to update my BIOS again and I'm really almost convinced it could work but first I am going to write an E-mail to the company that built my PC and ask them for their help on choosing the correct BIOS for my computer. They have my specs in their database and know the most about my system so hopefully they will provide me with the right update. It can take some time for them to reply but I'll let you know as soon as they do.

 

I just updated my DxDiag on my original post. 

 

Thanks in advance for your help. 

Message 36 of 57 (179 Views)
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Re: EA please tell us the requirements for Ultra Settings (with stable fps)

★ Guide

I've had fps problems with this game for years and played way more demanding games at smooth framerates.  Its not your graphics card you can be sure of that if ur only doing 1080p.  Its the CPU, but not that you can do much about it, even the most powerful cpu will still chug when you start to build more and more... although i'm sure even a newer cpu like the 5600x would give you only 10-20% more fps over your current cpu but even that would still chug on large builds.  The game only uses a couple cpu threads, it's hilarious, it's like this game was made 15+ years ago.  This game uses the same cpu threads as Sims 3, feels like they used the exact same game engine.

 

Looks like people here trying to help but mostly leading you down rabbit holes that could be dangerous like bios updates lol?  In what world have those ever done anything other than brick motherboards or give you maybe 5% improvements in memory performance on first gen ryzen cpus.  Seriously bad advice... if your getting good performance in all games except Sims 4, what the hell is a bios update going to do other than possibly brick your pc?  You update your Bios if you need to add an unsupported cpu, thats the only time, you never risk it for anything else, a bios update would never make a certain game run better when every other game already runs fine.

 

Anways, EA trys to build their houses and towns within certain limits to mostly to run stable at default, if your performance problems are from a new save and unmodified houses, then sometimes wrong.  I hit problems when I start to build larger homes, then my fps drop from 60-120+ fps down to as bad as 20-30 fps.  My cpu is an i7 4700k @ 4.4ghz.

 

I've seen much older games than Sims 4 get upgraded to use more than 2 threads with tiny budgets, EA has virtually unlimited money and fixes nothing.  If an indy developer made this game, it would have already been fixed.

Message 37 of 57 (169 Views)
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Re: EA please tell us the requirements for Ultra Settings (with stable fps)

[ Edited ]

@SimmerGeorge 

 


SimmerGeorge wrote:

there shouldn't be advisors telling people to launch video games in safe mode.

 


Well, that is true. Large smile
Before you update the BIOS, and it is not nearly as dangerous as some seem to think, Wink I would recommend a different approach, namely to upgrade to the newest Windows build.

 

You are still on Windows build 18363. That build will lose support in Mai 2021, so you need to update soon anyway.

 

To make this clear, you don't have a performance problem in the sense of the word.


This has nothing to do with the game getting "bigger" and your CPU could not handle it. The HWinfo logs show clearly that neither your CPU nor your GPU are utilized as they should be.  

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This is a players helping players forum, I don't work for EA.
Dies ist ein Spieler helfen Spielern Forum, ich arbeite nicht für EA.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Death closes all: but something ere the end, Some work of noble note, may yet be done, Not unbecoming men that strove with Gods.
Ulysses - Alfred, Lord Tennyson
Message 38 of 57 (157 Views)
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Re: EA please tell us the requirements for Ultra Settings (with stable fps)

★★★★★ Apprentice

@Holger1405 Do you know why my Windows update doesn't automatically suggest those new build updates? 

I could download them manually though. Can I just install the latest 20H2 version or do I have install them one after the other? 

Message 39 of 57 (119 Views)
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Re: EA please tell us the requirements for Ultra Settings (with stable fps)

[ Edited ]

@SimmerGeorge 

 

Many possible reasons, but not easy to determine. The update will most probably take care of that issue as well.

 

You can directly install 20H2. Easiest way is to use MS Edge to go to this MS side.

Than click on "Update now", download the Update exe, run it and let Windows do its work.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

This is a players helping players forum, I don't work for EA.
Dies ist ein Spieler helfen Spielern Forum, ich arbeite nicht für EA.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Death closes all: but something ere the end, Some work of noble note, may yet be done, Not unbecoming men that strove with Gods.
Ulysses - Alfred, Lord Tennyson
Message 40 of 57 (109 Views)
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