Zombies are not Balanced [ Edited ]

[Celedorn]

Anything that requires timing and smart play to be power is NOT by itself a powerful card. This is why bananasaurus and double mint are rather weak legendaries in my opinion. A lot of other cards can become unstoppable at right circumstances, and it is easier to do so.

Example: Pepper MD - ceiling? Couple times at turn 8, I made 2 10/10 pepper MDs, more than often I am able to drop this at 6/6, and if my opponent wants to use locust swarm on it? GREAT!!! Now I drop my super phat beets for 6/6 7/7 body. If I get the heals rolling early, and this thing grows since an early turn, even better, much more useful than double mint. For 2 mana that can often force your opponent to use 5 brains to deal with? I consider this card far better than both leg mentioned above.

Hibernating Beary - if your opponent is tapped out of brains, and you placed this at a 2 dmg or 3 dmg zombie, you can basically allow this plant to go off the charts at turn 4 (which they don't have access to locust swarm).

Blackeyed bean - I consider this the best card for plants, because many zombies are essentially forced to play tricks because of the turn order. If you put this bean at the right spot, it will force zombies to consider it twice before they use a trick to eliminate another plant. This is basically the insurance policy for plant heroes.

The reason why the great Zucchini is good because even if they eliminate the body, the damage is already done. At 9 mana, this is the best counter to someone who is playing giant Gargans like octo, sea monster, wizard etc. This also kills Octo's afterlife, which gives an insane value against a really good 

I consider three headed chomper excellent because of the turn order. When played, zombies are essentially forced to use a trick on this. This is because you would place this plant at a place where it essentially protects 3 lanes and not get attacked. If they want to trade a locust swarm for it, fine, it is a pretty fair trade. If not, and this plant is able to eat 1 or 2 zombies, it already earned its value. 

When you have to play it a certain way, or do certain thing in order to make a card powerful, then it is not a powerful card. The best cards are the ones when played (at any time) do one of the following:

1. immediately rewards you with value equal to or higher than the card's cost

2. Forces your opponent to immediately to spend equal or more resources to deal with. If they don't, it immediately rewards you enough that you gain a MASSIVE advantage.

PS: The trickster is the best card overall in the game, because it can get really cheap, and it deals damage immediately without any set up.

Also, I consider octo zombie a really good play, because of the afterlife. This means that this is 2x 8/8 frenzy. Which is really hard to deal with in the late game. This is especially true if you forced plants to use squashes on sea monster, or some other card already.

[MrNintendo69]

I personally think plants are stronger. Zombies are op against beginners mostly because they dont know what cards can be inside of tombstones at all and or weed spray demolishes everything they have. I suggest playing zombies in the early ranks with weed spray up to 15/20. I usually see control/healing plant decks succeeding the most in my experience using and against them...If you're going aggressive with plants try using as many as possible with 3 or more attack to avoid weed sprays and carry around alot of buffs.

[Borisso]

You think Pepper MD is better than bananasaurus and double mint?? I can tell you right now that 4 times out of 5 I would rather have someone drop the MD rather than one of the two legendaries. Unless you are late game, drop an MD and heal 3 times in one turn, it just doesn't represent the same threat level AT ALL.

MD needs other cards to synergise with it to be great. Bananasaurus and double mint become better each turn ON THEIR OWN. That is infinitely better value.

I agree that Zombie have amazing legendaries. I wouldn't say that Trickster is the best card in the game. You have to build a trick-heavy deck around it. Something like Zombot 1000 is just great on it's own, no need for extra setup. Some people argue that it's too strong even, but it needs to exist to counter (in a way) Cornucopia. 

Speaking of Cornucopia, that another great plant legend. Basically a "you need multiple answers now or you lose the game" card, in most situation. 

Soul Patch is an insane control card and one of my favorite legendaries in the game. It will always gain you value unless hard removed on the spot. 

Wall-nut Bowling as won me more games than any other legendary cards. 

Winter Melon is good but need the right deck/setup.

Dandy lion king is insane in the right decks too.

My point? Both plants and zombies have legendary cards that rank from bonkers to great in the right decks.

and again, I've played over 3000 matches of this game and I still feel like the game is well balanced. Maybe not PERFECTLY balanced, but well enough.

[Celedorn]

I did NOT say peper MD is better. The point is, this is the tier where the cards need set up to become effective, it doesn't have enough immediately value to be in the "this card is strong" tier for me. I use it to compare to cards like the great zucchini, which when played, you can reap rewards immediately. Over time, the card will gain a lot of value, never denied that, but having immediate value outweighs over time value, that's the entire point. Also, Pepper MD is a really strong because it is at worst 2 for 2/2, which is an average 2 sun body. The cost is also important in considering a card. You make it sound like the healing is useless, and the sole purpose is to make Pepper MD stornger. The fact is that the healing allow your other plants to make favorite trades, while boosting a 2 sun (again, this card costs 2 suns!!!) up to 4/4, or 6/6. 

The biggest misunderstanding of my post by you seems to be the difference between a card being overall strong, and a card effect being strong.

Overall strength:

I take into account GAME META, GAME SPEED, REWARD OF PLAYING CARD. All the legendary cards have SUPER strong effects, but due to other facts, a lot of legends are "weak", and hard to play. Example

1. Bowling. I use this because it is a 10 sun card. In a CCG that needs to deal big damage fast (before your opponent gets too many superpowers), the game is usually decided around 6 or 7 suns, so a 10 sun card will be really hard to play in this meta. The effect is definitely insane, creates 3 nuts, and 6 damage in 3 lanes? That's worth 12 suns at least.

2. bananasaurus - the issue I have here is that zombies play tricks after plants. which means you have to be really careful playing this card, or else it can be eliminated right off the board, Even if it doesn't, you gain steady rewards each turn. I can make this comparison to threeheaded chomper, which it not eliminated by a zombie trick, immediately allow the plant player to reap HUGE rewards. 

The main point of the post is also you don't need legendary cards to be competitive. I beat plenty of players with rare or below

[Borisso]

I agree with you on a few points but before we get there, I don't think we can say that this game currently has a "meta". The game has been out worldwide only a couple of weeks now and I see way too many different types of decks to say that they are 3-4 "main ones" on each side. A meta usually allows you to anticipate to a certain degree what the opponent will play given which heroes they have, and while you can do that to a certain degree, it's mainly due to the limited options each deck has as opposed to an actual Meta. It takes a lot of really good players to break down a game like this and create a meta, which this game hasn't seen surface yet. That's my opinion of course. Though I can't wait for this to happen as I'm craving more serious competition.

Now, I 100% agree with you that you don't need Legendary cards to be competitive. Been there done that much like you, so on that we agree. I'm sure we also agree that Legendary cards make decks often better, but that's besides the main point.

In terms of specific legendaries, we could try and rank each one from best to worst (This actually sounds fun! I'd actually love to do this and chat with you and others about our own order), but right now, I want to say that I get what you mean by the difference between a card being overall strong, and a card effect being strong. I'm just not sure we'd agree on which is which.

Zombot 1000 or Cornucopia are, in my opinion, overall strong. They do boast a powerful "effect", but you are sure to get value when you play them because of their "enter the field" effects. (More for Timmy-types of players)

bananasaurus and Undying pharaoh aren't going to dominate the field as they are played, but left uncheck can swing the game in a major way. 

Then there are the weird legendaries like Barrel of deadbeards Winter melon that require a bit more setup to shine and will appeal a bit more to a creative type of player. (More for Johnny-types of players)

Cheers!

[balancedgameplay]

That's where your wrong kiddo zombies have grave stones so your idea of balance is out the window . I personally think sneaky and hearty are the most over powered classes in the game sneaky have deadly and gravestones while hearty has enter galactic warlord who's is op arm wrestler who's a 1 drop that's 3/3 with warlord is now 4/4 .2 warlords and you might as well concede. And that one card that makes everything invincible so I mean what is balance😄😄😄 fix the game now

[daalnnii]

holy necro, Batman!

You're arguing against people who were judging the game shortly after global release... ... Last year. It's not even the same game anymore... ...kiddo.

I can tell you this as an ultimate league plant player. You need to learn about removal.

[BPRDHB]

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@daalnnii wrote:
holy necro, Batman!

You're arguing against people who were judging the game shortly after global release... ... Last year. It's not even the same game anymore... ...kiddo.

I can tell you this as an ultimate league plant player. You need to learn about removal.

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His favorite card must be....Fun-Dead Raiser!  No?  *sigh*  I tried...

BPRD

[patdk75]

I read both of these year old threads in their entirety, and I noticed that somethings never change. The only difference is back then there weren't as many experienced players.
Either way, it still works almost exactly as one of the smart posters mentioned, when you first start you play others who know what they are doing and it seems like eveytime they played a card there's no way I can do anything... and then after awhile you get more comfortable and realize that you were just new.

The one thing that doesn't change is no matter how many players try to tell new players that it takes some getting used to every single card and offer to help with advice, usually it still ends up with nerf this because I don't know how to beat it, or nerf this because I have yet to realize that removal cards are a key to victory.

[bringerofdarknes]

I say you are right Zombies are not balanced with Plants, NOT UNTIL THEY HAVE TEAM UP IN MY OPINION! Only then will the Plants and Zombies have equal Protection I mean cmon who hasn’t noticed that the Zombies always did have team up in every Plants vs Zombies game? I mean look at how there’s always a Zombie walking behind another 1 it’s obvious isn’t it? Sort of how Sunflowers always behind the offensive Plant right? Or how Bucketheads are almost always walking infront of much weaker Zombies to Protect them. Lol