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The balance between Plants & Zombies

by EA_Roger
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Original Post

Re: The balance between Plants & Zombies

★★★★★ Apprentice

There is a lot of research on bias of perception of randomness and how the mind works to make us perceive that kind of pattern in things. Essentially, we tend to see patterns in things that might not necessarily be there (look up the term .apophenia).

 

This is a feeling that happens in all card games and you will see people posting about games being rigged for all games. As a game developer, I can tell you that it's much harder to rig a game at runtime so that it feels good than to just balance the pieces directly.

 

If you find yourself getting exactly what you need very often, it means that your deck is well built and has consistency against the meta you are facing. It also means you made the right decisions early on in the game to get it to a state where the cards you are drawing are likely to be your outs. This is why skilled players tend to repeatedly and consistently win even though the game has elements of randomness in it.

Message 91 of 98 (2,367 Views)

Re: The balance between Plants & Zombies

★ Guide
I think what you’re describing is luck.
Message 92 of 98 (2,355 Views)

Re: The balance between Plants & Zombies

★★ Apprentice

Berries and rose are just super overpowered. Pleases EA fix that’s it’s just frustrating.

Message 93 of 98 (1,887 Views)

Re: The balance between Plants & Zombies

★★ Guide

For a while, I've felt certain that even if Plants aren't more powerful than Zombies, they're still much less fun to play against.  I think I've finally figured out why I feel that way.

 

Most Zombie decks I've played or encountered rely on outplaying your opponent.  You want to grow faster, or move your zombies around and strike where they're not.  It's fairly straightforward in concept, and fairly challenging in practice.

 

In contrast, most Plant decks I've encountered (and yes, even one that I play) rely on keeping the opponent from playing.  The primary decks I encounter are either Solar Flare decks where well over half the cards are direct damage or instant-kill cards (I regularly play games that go ten or more rounds without a single one of my zombies getting a hit, and without the opponent ever playing a plant), or Freeze decks that (surprisingly enough) rely on keeping your opponent frozen so they can't do anything.

 

Now, I don't claim that these Plant decks are more powerful, but having played both sides, they're a lot less fun to play against (and even to play, personally).  When both decks focus on playing themselves well, then both players feel like they're accomplishing something and can have fun.  When one deck is devoted to keeping the other player from doing anything, then it prevents that other player from having fun, which isn't good for a game.  Some control elements are necessary, but allowing entire decks be devoted to making sure their opponent doesn't even get to play is just cruel.

 

I hope any future fixes rely on adding more "outplay" cards like Untrickable cards, rather than just giving Zombies more control cards until their decks are just as little fun to play against as Plants.  I've seen other games do something like the latter, and it really just kills the game.

Message 94 of 98 (1,832 Views)

Re: The balance between Plants & Zombies

★ Apprentice

How about some proof?

Perhaps I've missed something in the 8 pages of this discussion, if you could even call it that, but all I've seen is anectdotes and nothing more than "Trust him, he's part of EA" by those one would fully expect to hear that from.

What isn't debatable is that EA doesnt exactly scream "trustworthy". In fact, it sounds more like you just want us to shut up.

 

I want to see which methods are being used to determine balance and the results. Only from there can a real discussion take place. Why wasnt that info given from the beginning rather than "Its balanced; discuss that."

Message 95 of 98 (1,806 Views)

Re: The balance between Plants & Zombies

★★★★ Newbie

Ea_Roger thank you for your response.

 

I dont believe either plants or zombies overpower each other..but I do believe that there is a certain lean towards the zombie side.

 

Certain cards that I believe are too cheap to use or are just ridiculous all together.

 

For instance...tell me which card on the plant side compares to the zombie recurring octopus at 8/8?

 

Another instance...tell me which card on the plant side compares to the dino card that creates history cards in random lanes everytime you draw a card?

 

I've been playing this game for a long time and have noticed this while I'm playing with different plant heros.

 

I'd also like to throw the create 3 gargantuan in 3 random lanes card...I dont know of a plant card that has that card available to create 3 plants in random lanes with a 6/6 ability and above..

 

If you guys know of any cards on plant side that compare to those 3 cards...let me know..

 

There are other cards I can throw in but those are the ones I want to draw attention to first.

 

Thank you

Message 96 of 98 (1,428 Views)

Re: The balance between Plants & Zombies

[ Edited ]
Champion

@abc846574389

 

It's not about comparable, it's about cards of equal power.  Zombies don't have the equivalent of three headed chomper, dragonfruit, great zucchini or Walnut bowling.  

 

Because of the split in their turns and the need to save brains in order to react to the plant players turn, they need some great cards to help keep up and possibly turn the tide; but don't act like everything plants have access to zombies have as well.  Plants have their own strong mechanics for zombies to work around.

Message 97 of 98 (1,422 Views)

Re: The balance between Plants & Zombies

★★ Novice

I'll say what i've learned in my experience.

 

For now, plants are better balanced than zombies: while every plant deck can be well played, i can't say the same for zombies. There is full of sufficients deck that can have a 40/50 ratio win and only Neptune's gargantuar and superzomb's conjure are really op to counter heal, berries and legendary decks. Most of the decks are not so well-balanced as the counterpart (as freeze and heal) so that cannot be completely played and there are heroes as boogaloo completely useless. Get it also that a legendary deck in plants exists and it's almost played while in zombies cannot be built. There should be only some balance to do whit legendary stats and cost, but not so much awaring (but DRAGONFRUIT. Dragonfruit rules the.matches).

 

On the other side all plants heroes are good and can be played as well. There is only the problem of grave gargantuars and, at most, lethal cards that can counter like everything, but i've not other to say (u can understand i'm a zombie player, lol). 

Message 98 of 98 (807 Views)

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