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Re: The balance between Plants & Zombies

by bythehill
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Original Post

Re: The balance between Plants & Zombies

★★★★ Novice
Yes, it's a fact that EA Roger said those things you mentioned. Obviously.
What's the point of repeating what was originally said?
The fact is that nothing is definitive unless there is precision. For example, one can't say which side is stronger but one can say which side wins more battles because numbers can easily make it a fact. That's what I said. I'm curious which side wins more battles not because it would proof one side is more powerful rather to see if the ratio is close to 50/50 or if one side has been winning significantly more battles.
Message 11 of 98 (2,360 Views)

Re: The balance between Plants & Zombies

★★★★ Guide
And just like I said, the stats are meaningless except for reading into something that isn't there...the only way you are going to have accurate "facts", is to have everything completely broken down by level vs level, which we all know is a nonfactor, because of the matchmaking being as erratic as it is, it would be a stat that would not hold any weight....which is why I have facts is quotation marks, and not trying to be sarcastic.
Don't get me wrong, I love statistics and trivia of all sorts, from having sports almanacs when I was growing up, I would read old hockey or baseball, football and basketball, even the olympic results and record performances, and find all of it fascinating.
Back on track Patrick...
Okay, honestly I don't see how even having the info that say, hypothetically in multiplayer(whether league and casual are lumped together or not) plants are victorious, 60% of the time. That doesn't show us how many times that a newbie immediately concedes before you can even finish choosing the first four cards.
We won't know how many wins were poachers(I don't know if everyone uses that term, but it's when an elite player with a crazy deck is taking beginners and ripping them a new.....)
All I am trying to get across, and emphasizing what Roger said, that there are too many factors to make any actual stats mean anything. And you know as well as I do, if they released numbers saying that plants have won 60% of all multiplayer mode games, or whatever, that plenty of players would take that as an actual fact. And that is a fact.
Message 12 of 98 (2,342 Views)
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Re: The balance between Plants & Zombies

★★★★ Novice

I'm not sure why you're trying to make a point when I basically agreed with most of what you've said. If my post had been read, you'd see that I agree there can't be a way to say that one side is better than the other. 

 

But how would plants winning 60% of the time not be a fact? It would be incorrect to dismiss it as anything but a fact because that's what the percentages say. What you can't do is formulate any conclusion with certainty from that fact. Also, what if global data on all multiplayer games' outcomes were collected and posted for us to see and it showed that the ratio is 1:1? I think such a ratio might make people reconsider their opinions on which is stronger. 

 

You should really learn to read as I even stated the stats would not have a say in what is what but would be interesting just to see. 

Message 13 of 98 (2,334 Views)

Re: The balance between Plants & Zombies

[ Edited ]
★★★★ Guide
I can read, and quite well thank you. The only point I want to get through, which has been more difficult than it should, is that by showing the stats to the public, even if there are stipulations, there are countless people who will take it as gospel.
Does that make more sense to you? I know I tend to ramble on at times, but hey, that's adhd for you...but I still have gotten my point across in each post.

So if you agreed with what was said then why have you constantly tried to argue against?
Maybe I am not the only one who needs to read slower...
Edit... I am done here since it seems that you are wanting to start petty bickering and that's not why this thread is here
Message 14 of 98 (2,330 Views)

Re: The balance between Plants & Zombies

[ Edited ]
★★★★★ Novice

I like clique peas are so powerful and they are beans. I like how plants can heal theirselves doing a great damage to the zombies, zombies can not be healed a lot as plants do. I like briar rose with 4 of health (not 3 but 4) and that with a simple flower of 1 sun can protect it and destroy every zombie in the field. =d

I like double attacks of plants, I like being so powerful playing as a plant player. Legendary cards by the plants side are very powerful that I win 8/10 on level 50. (most of the times is 9/10 or 10/10)

Luck? Only you need luck with zombies, with plants every card is good, you don't depend on other cards to win as happens with zombies(jajaja zombies need a lot of luck to win a match on level 50)


[Removed all caps @EA_Roger - Write posts using ALL CAPS or extra-large font. This is like shouting at someone on a forum. And nobody likes being YELLED AT!! Source -http://answers.ea.com/t5/help/faqpage#rules-guidelines]

Message 15 of 98 (2,319 Views)

Re: The balance between Plants & Zombies

Champion (Retired)

@jasterrogue1 wrote:

I LIKE CLIQUE PEAS ARE SO POWERFUL AND THEY ARE BEANS. I LIKE HOW PLANTS CAN HEAL THEIRSELVES DOING A GREAT DAMAGE TO THE ZOMBIES, ZOMBIES CAN NOT BE HEALED A LOT AS PLANTS DO. I LIKE BRIAR ROSE WITH 4 OF HEALTH (NOT 3 BUT 4) AND THAT WITH A SIMPLE FLOWER OF 1 SUN CAN PROTECT IT AND DESTROY EVERY ZOMBIE IN THE FIELD. =D

I LIKE DOUBLE ATTACKS OF PLANTS, I LIKE BEING SO POWERFUL PLAYING AS A PLANT PLAYER. LEGENDARY CARDS BY THE PLANTS SIDE ARE VERY POWERFUL THAT I WIN 8/10 ON LEVEL 50. (MOST OF THE TIMES IS 9/10 OR 10/10)

LUCK? ONLY YOU NEED LUCK WITH ZOMBIES, WITH PLANTS EVERY CARD IS GOOD, YOU DON'T DEPEND ON OTHER CARDS TO WIN AS HAPPENS WITH ZOMBIES(JAJAJA ZOMBIES NEED A LOT OF LUCK TO WIN A MATCH ON LEVEL 50)



 

Bad poster!  Bad!  No Capslock for you!

 

BPRD

 

P.S.  Thanks @EA_Roger for posting the thread.  Always good to know we are being listened to.

Message 16 of 98 (2,308 Views)

Re: The balance between Plants & Zombies

[ Edited ]
★ Guide

Thank you @EA_Roger. It’s good to see some feedback. Is there a way to share some global statistics on a high level or is that something that’s not shared?

Message 17 of 98 (2,292 Views)

Re: The balance between Plants & Zombies

Community Manager

@bythehill

Believe me if I had numbers at my disposal I would gladly share them, especially if it backs up my point above. Honestly you don't have to believe me, all I ask is that you hear me out. I've discussed this internally with some of the dedicated teams that work on this game. Teams that have been playing this game before it was released and that continue to play it on a daily basis, testing every aspect of it. They know this game inside out and they are extremely proud of this game, if something wasn't working out they would be rectifying it. I even printed out these drawings to bribe them into providing me information: Hero Costume ideas 

 

After seeing those, no one could lie to me. All kidding aside, I'm also sharing my experience as an employee who has worked alongside many of these teams and on different strategy games. When the game is unbalanced we are quickly made aware of this, especially if it's the one of the two only factions of the game and we intervene to correct it.

You can continue to discuss this, but do so in a constructive manner. As it stands you are being far from constructive towards several users that have accumulated thousands of posts between them. 



Hey @jasterrogue1,

 

I've changed your message back to sentence case, this isn't the first time I've brought this up with you and many users have also asked you to write correctly. I strongly urge you to check out your PMs, here is the rule I've called out to you:

  • Write posts using ALL CAPS or extra-large font. This is like shouting at someone on a forum. And nobody likes being YELLED AT!!

Thanks to everyone for taking part in this conversation Standard smile

 

Roger.

Message 18 of 98 (2,253 Views)

Re: The balance between Plants & Zombies

★★★ Guide

 

I think that what really determines if a card is "balanced" or not relies on 2 main factors: Its own efficiency (Stats by cost) and the "value" the user can get from it.

Let's talk about the efficiency first.

 

common card on this game usually gives you 2 "points" for 1 resource. These "points" is what you use to give a plant/zombie strenght, health or abilities. 

Most one cost cards use this points in order to create a "body" (1 "point" in attack and 1 in health, creating a 1/1). Skunk Punk, Small-Nut, basic Peashooter, etc are some examples of this.

Sunflower is another good example. It spends 1 "point" in health and the other one on an ability (create 1 more sun at the start of the turn).

If a "body" is not going to be created (on this case a trick) you can use this points as an effect. (Bungee Plumber is a good example. Its 2 "points" are focused on direct damage, rather than creating a 1/1 zombie).

 

 

However, just from this example we can see that there are cards that surpass this rule (Like Sting Bean that has 1 attack, 2 health and 2 abilities (Amphibious and Bullseye), making it 5 "points" for the same 1 resource).  Paparazzi Zombie, Mini-Ninja and Wall-Nut are other examples of "overstated" cards (BTW I am only talking about 1 cost common cards)

 

 

An uncommon card gives you (usually) 4-5 "points" for the same 1 resource. (Dog Walker has 4 points on stats and 1 on an ability, Loose Cannon has 2 points on stats and 2 on an ability, etc).

But then things get out of control. Headstone Carver has 5 points on stats (1 attack/3 health) and 1 on its ability. Its ability may never trigger, on which you would have paid 1 resource for only 4 points. However, this is where the second part enters, the "value" a player can get from the card.

 

If the effect of Headstone Carver triggers, even if only once, you give another zombie 2 extra "points" that are technically free.

If it triggers twice, then you get a 1 cost zombie with 9 points worth of stats. (1 attack, 3 health, 1 ability, and 2 extra attack and 2 extra health to other zombies).

 

 

This is what determines if a card is "balanced" or not to a player.

 

Cards whose effects can be used again and again are more "broken" than those who are not, because you can get more "free value" from it (like Captain Cucumber). 

 

Message 19 of 98 (2,224 Views)

Re: The balance between Plants & Zombies

★★★★ Novice
But zombies are op now
Message 20 of 98 (2,195 Views)

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