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Anyone who thinks Plants are balanced...

by jj48car
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Original Post

Re: Anyone who thinks Plants are balanced...

★★ Guide

@puntwothree wrote:

@jj48car There are several cards with that ability. One I think is called QDCM. One is called Astro-Shroom.


I don't get why people think QDCM is so powerful.  He's good, sure, but he's relatively easy to take out, and even if you don't, he's not doing much damage unless you draw a LOT of cards with him on watch.

Message 71 of 80 (582 Views)

Re: Anyone who thinks Plants are balanced...

★★★ Apprentice

@jj48car wrote:

@puntwothree wrote:

@jj48car There are several cards with that ability. One I think is called QDCM. One is called Astro-Shroom.


I don't get why people think QDCM is so powerful.  He's good, sure, but he's relatively easy to take out, and even if you don't, he's not doing much damage unless you draw a LOT of cards with him on watch.


QDCM is not easy to take out on turn 1. I remember this was this video floating around with someone playing a deck full of them (before shrinking violet came about). I have been obliterated by qdcm/gatekeeper/regifting where the zombie hero just keeps them staying alive.

 

It was never said in the thread but what is an OP plant combination? The only ones I can think of cost a lot of sun:

 

Team up environment + Dandilion or Astrovera

Mime + Dandilion or Astrovera

 

Planet of the Grapes + Admiral Bean or Astroshroom I guess?

Message 72 of 80 (538 Views)

Re: Anyone who thinks Plants are balanced...

★★ Guide

@npgibbs wrote:

@jj48car wrote:

@puntwothree wrote:

@jj48car There are several cards with that ability. One I think is called QDCM. One is called Astro-Shroom.


I don't get why people think QDCM is so powerful.  He's good, sure, but he's relatively easy to take out, and even if you don't, he's not doing much damage unless you draw a LOT of cards with him on watch.


QDCM is not easy to take out on turn 1. I remember this was this video floating around with someone playing a deck full of them (before shrinking violet came about). I have been obliterated by qdcm/gatekeeper/regifting where the zombie hero just keeps them staying alive.

 

It was never said in the thread but what is an OP plant combination? The only ones I can think of cost a lot of sun:

 

Team up environment + Dandilion or Astrovera

Mime + Dandilion or Astrovera

 

Planet of the Grapes + Admiral Bean or Astroshroom I guess?


Maybe not turn 1, but then again, he doesn't do much damage after only one turn.  If you leave him unblocked, you'll enter turn 2 having suffered 2 damage, hardly much of a game-changer.  I'm not saying he's completely harmless, but I find Admiral Bean a lot more frightening, honestly.

 

As for Plants, I don't know about combos so much as synergistic strategies and specific powerful cards.  For strategies, Berries run rampant and Freezing is just disgustingly potent, while "Keep the board clear of Zombies while playing absolutely no Plants" decks may not be OP, but are quite irritating in their trollishness.

 

Specific Plant cards I take issue with include:

Brainana (Honestly, even just making the Zombie player lose two brains would have made it plenty powerful)

Re-peat Moss (Goes without saying)

Captain Cucumber (At least require him to damage the Hero with an ability like that!)

Doubled Mint (If you can't take it out the turn it's played, your only hope is Deadly or blocking the lane indefinitely.)

Dark Matter Dragonfruit (Because Plants don't have enough anti-trick cards as it is.  Oh, and we'll make him capable of all but clearing three lanes every turn, too.)

Message 73 of 80 (530 Views)

Re: Anyone who thinks Plants are balanced...

Champion

Admiral bean can be blocked by your shield.  Also, admiral bean won't stop you from playing your cards...  Qdcm will, especially if there are more than one on the field.  Think about how many cards conjure cards at this point, and just how vital that is to strong decks.

 

That said, qdcm isn't what it used to be.  They are plenty of ways to take care of it now.  But it used to be almost impossible to kill that card, especially when decks were built around it.

 

 

Message 74 of 80 (524 Views)

Re: Anyone who thinks Plants are balanced...

★★★★★ Novice

Dark-Matter-dragonfruit.

 

both plants & zombies rely on tricks to some degree.

 

Is there a zombie card equivalent that makes plant tricks cost 6 n does 3 damage in 3 lanes.

i sold the free ones I won because I have honor n that is hardly a honorable type plant.

 

R.I.P Tricks.

Message 75 of 80 (363 Views)

Re: Anyone who thinks Plants are balanced...

[ Edited ]
Champion

@Big82S  You're mistaking singular card power with balance.  Do plants have an 8 cost with frenzy and aquatic that can be infinitely replayed when it's killed?  Nope.  Does that make octo OP?  Nope.  Do plants have an aquatic 6 cost 5/6 that moves and leaves a plant behind when it damages the hero?  Nope.  Op?  Nope.  Can zombies play 3 defensive ends by the time DMD comes out providing all the same benefits minus aquatic but gaining armor?  Yup.  Do plants have a card that will give all  the remaining minions in your deck, even ones to be conjured later +1/1?  Nope.  Op?  Nope.  Asymmetry doesn't mean unbalanced. 

 

Overall deck balance is far more important than individual card balance, and with the state of the game now, if they can get out the FINISHER that is DMD before you can close the game out, well...  When you can potentially turn 3 bmr, that's on you.

 

You say r.i.p. to tricks, which makes me think you were running a trick heavy deck...  ... Which is exactly what DMD was meant to counter, two harder turns later than defensive ends (which when considering cost to play and rarity, is actually pretty on point with DMD) when most games are closing out.   Meaning it's not even that great a card for what it was made to do.

Message 76 of 80 (335 Views)

Re: Anyone who thinks Plants are balanced...

★★ Guide

Anyone who thinks DMD is balanced has never seen it played on Turn 4. (See the part of this thread where I solved it.)

 

... I haven’t either, but it is possible. And in fact, DMD is a very powerful card, and has been for seasons and seasons and seasons, and that’s why it is the very symbol for UL and the centerpiece of Smarty control. It is in fact very good at what it does. It is a win-con.

 

But if I am really/truly injecting myself in the more serious undercurrent of this thread, which should never have happened,: DMD does not end games against me anymore. It does against some of my decks, but those are mostly the ones I file away as “Casual.” If I am trying to win and I am not trying to do anything else, I am playing something that answers DMD.

 

1) DMD is hard to answer with Tricks, but not impossible. If I am turn 8+ v. Smarty, it’s not uncommon that I can save my brains and use Rocket Science as a contingency plan. Yes, that’ll kill my whole turn... but so does playing DMD. And my opponent loses a win conduction, whereas I do not.

 

2) If you’re experiencing a trick-hate meta, there are a number of good options (such as Smash Sports) that use almost no tricks whatever, and (bonus) have turns where your zombies can’t get hurt. Try profiting off DMD on that board.

 

3) If you smell the D coming, you can often anticipate in which lane it’s going to drop. I always start my small/wide Zombies in lanes 1 (Heights) and 4 to make Shrinking Violet less effective. Likewise, you can often direct DMD into a lane in which it’s splash damage is ineffectual, or force it into a lane in which it’s going to trade or the plant player loses.

 

4) DMD is particularly vulnerable to sneaky. Barrel of Barrels and Smoke Bomb can both be played by Turn 8 through DMD’s restrictions, and Excavator Zombie, Pogo Zombie, Laser Base Alpha (and environments and deadly, generally) are even better answers.

 

Sometimes your opponent will be at high enough health to ignore your board and drop DMD in the water. Then you lose. It turns out win conditions can cause winning.

Message 77 of 80 (318 Views)

Re: Anyone who thinks Plants are balanced...

★★★ Apprentice
@puntwothree playing DMD on turn 4 is quite simple and there is more than one way to get it done.

Solar Flare - Solar Burn Soccer ball, Twin Sunflower Football means you have 6 sun at turn 3. To get to 8 at turn 4 means all you need is Twin Sunflower to survive to turn 4 and have any other sun producing plant.

Double Twin Sunflower on the board surviving turn 3.

And quite a few other configurations like Solar Winds. It is not difficult. My UL Rose deck is centered around Primal Sunflower, Twin Sunflower, Solar Winds, Briar Rose and DMD. There are enough trickless ways to get rid of one - Pogo, Blowgun, Cheese Shover.

The award for most ridiculous card still remains on the Zombie side - Intergalactic Warlord.
Message 78 of 80 (310 Views)

Re: Anyone who thinks Plants are balanced...

★★ Guide

I know 4 is possible (even not too unlikely). I did some quick mental math to see if 3 was possible and decided that it probably wasn’t. (Ramping +5 on 3 is a lot harder than +4 on 4.)

Message 79 of 80 (308 Views)

Re: Anyone who thinks Plants are balanced...

★★★ Apprentice
@puntwothree To be honest you have to drop the ball to allow two twin sunflowers on the board at turn 3.

Another thing that no one discusses is environments entirely favour Zombie side since they play last.
Message 80 of 80 (300 Views)

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