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Anyone who thinks Plants are balanced...

by jj48car
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Original Post

Re: Anyone who thinks Plants are balanced...

★★★ Apprentice

@puntwothree wrote:

Octo Turn 3 is easy. (I said easy. Not reliable.)

 

You say your opponent used Chest. So (s)he probably also used Medula Nebula, which could come out turn 2 w/Terror Former? Chest/Nebula is one of the truly insane zombie combos on the surface: together they’re broken; apart they’re hardly worth playing. (I used to try, but no longer do it in any of my competitive decks.)

 

So +2 brains from Chest (assuming its cost was reduced). +3 from Vendor (assuming its cost was reduced and it was played on chest). Presto. 8 brains turn 3.

 

The reason Turn 2 Bad Moon Rising is much, much trickier than Turn 3 Octo Zombie is that you literally can’t go through Nebula.

 

So, OK: “Whoever thinks Zombies are balanced has never seen Turn 3 Octo.”

 

Here’s my counter. “Whoever thinks plants are balanced has never seen their tried and tuned Ult. deck beaten by vanilla beans & bounce by the EA AI.” (For those of you not in the know, by vanilla I mean “no abilities...”)

 

Are we having fun yet? :-)


Unfortunately I forgot the sequence but he did not get the most ideal scenario because when I tried to recreate it he could have done it on turn 2.

 

He played HG superpower on turn 2 and not 1. Everything in his hand cost 1 less. He would have had 1 brain left so he could not play nebula. He has Interdimensional, Teleport, Buried Treasure.

 

I remember him having Interdimensional on Nebula and when he teleported that changed to something I cannot remember right now. I think he also played a sports zombie at a reduced cost which helped him generate brains. I wish I wrote it down but it was impressive. Well played sir, well played.

Message 61 of 80 (294 Views)

Re: Anyone who thinks Plants are balanced...

★★★ Apprentice

@daalnnii wrote:
I just disagree. Both sides have some crazy combos that can seem overpowered, but get beaten everyday and have weaknesses in their own ways. The problem a lot of people have is that there may not be an answer in the style of deck you're running, so it's viewed as overpowered.

The other things people don't generally consider when coming up against these combos:. They don't always work because of card draw. For every time you've lost to that combination, you could have three times you've beaten that exact same deck and didn't even realize it because their cards just weren't there when they needed. There is, in fact, a luck aspect to this game.

There are certain decks that are stronger than others, that's a fact, and I would like to see a balance pass in the future to either bring care in line with others of their rarity, or just to change this stale meta as a whole; but that isn't too say I find any one mechanic to be so overpowered it can't be beaten. It's really hard to balance a game where luck, the player disparity in both experience and cards, and counter decks exist. Speaking from my own experience as someone with pretty much every plant card, I've beaten with and been beaten by just about every strong strategy out there. The game is in an overall good place, just a boring one right now.

As for teleport and over healing... They're both very strong mechanics that do work outside the normal game mechanics, but I wouldn't call them overpowered either, especially considering both sides have one of them. (In the case of teleporting, two actually). They're just things that make the game now interesting. Not a bad thing.


To be fair would you provide a concrete example of an OP combo in the plant world?

Message 62 of 80 (293 Views)

Re: Anyone who thinks Plants are balanced...

★★★ Apprentice

The wonderful (and frustrating) thing about the game is the randomness. It is this that is the ultimate equalizer no matter how legendary your hand is. I have made it to UL 5 or 6 times and I have been beaten by the simplest of decks because I got behind in the early rounds. And I always try to get a 1 sun card to start just in case I get hit with a Ninja or Con Man or...

 

But EA in an effort to create awesome cards created some illogical ones. To me the poster child for illogical is Intergalactic Warlord. To buff every card currently has and will have is unreasonable. I posted my screenshot of 50 health using imitator + astrovera.

 

It is like a comic book where the writers keep trying to come up with more powerful characters to keep the reader engaged. Then it gets Thanos ridiculous.

Message 63 of 80 (288 Views)

Re: Anyone who thinks Plants are balanced...

Champion

I'll show you two of my more simple decks that have had flawless victories that can SEEM overpowered on the receiving end.  Under the right circumstances, they have both lead me to flawless victories with more health than I started with...  If say that could definitely seem overpowered if you're the one I was facing.

 

 

 

 

Message 64 of 80 (287 Views)

Re: Anyone who thinks Plants are balanced...

[ Edited ]
Champion

If that deck doesn't float your boat for not even letting them to my hero, maybe this will

Message 65 of 80 (276 Views)

Re: Anyone who thinks Plants are balanced...

★★ Guide

@npgibbs I don’t get it.

 

1) You say Terror Former was Turn 2.

 

2) Nebula cannot be played Turn 1.

 

3) Nebula cannot be played Turn 2, unless Terror Former has been played Turn 1.

 

4) You say there WAS a Nebula in play.

 

Are you saying, 5) Nebula was played, and somehow your opponent generated a positive brain-count with it, even though it wasn’t in play at the time Interdimentional Zombie was played, and that all of this happened on Turn 3?

 

It seems far more likely that you miscounted, and all this went down turn 4.

 

No offense.

 

Like I said, turn 2 Dark Moon Rising does not use Nebula. It does not use Interdimentional Zombie or Chest or even Brain Vendor. You need multiple copies of Mustache Waxer + Terror Former in your opening hand. It’s very, very, very statistically hard to pull off. But it is potentially a Turn 2 win, which is at least tied for the fastest in the game.

Message 66 of 80 (269 Views)

Re: Anyone who thinks Plants are balanced...

★★★ Apprentice

@puntwothree wrote:

@npgibbs I don’t get it.

 

1) You say Terror Former was Turn 2.

 

2) Nebula cannot be played Turn 1.

 

3) Nebula cannot be played Turn 2, unless Terror Former has been played Turn 1.

 

4) You say there WAS a Nebula in play.

 

Are you saying, 5) Nebula was played, and somehow your opponent generated a positive brain-count with it, even though it wasn’t in play at the time Interdimentional Zombie was played, and that all of this happened on Turn 3?

 

It seems far more likely that you miscounted, and all this went down turn 4.

 

No offense.

 

Like I said, turn 2 Dark Moon Rising does not use Nebula. It does not use Interdimentional Zombie or Chest or even Brain Vendor. You need multiple copies of Mustache Waxer + Terror Former in your opening hand. It’s very, very, very statistically hard to pull off. But it is potentially a Turn 2 win, which is at least tied for the fastest in the game.


I cannot remember. I wish I could. But I am sure it was in turn 3. I am not offended (easily) so don't worry about it.

 

Look at the big picture - if he played Terror on turn 1 you can see a path to getting 7 brains on the third turn by playing Nebula on turn 2 and having a Vendor, Interdimensional, and teleport. It is not like this is impossible or even really difficult - HG can produce a tremendous amount of brains by playing Terror. And to give that Zombie access to a teleport makes it dangerous.

 

 

But if he did it on turn 4 does that make it go from unacceptable to acceptable? Probably not.

 

I have been beaten badly by many decks in my time playing this game. Some of the most brutal coming at the hands of the insane scaling pet decks. Some losses you can understand but some are annoying.

Message 67 of 80 (260 Views)

Re: Anyone who thinks Plants are balanced...

★★ Guide

Whoever thinks zombies are balanced has not played an obscene scaling pet deck.

 

Whoever thinks plants are balanced has not lost to an opponent at 30 health.

Message 68 of 80 (255 Views)

Re: Anyone who thinks Plants are balanced...

★★★ Apprentice
I do not want to defend Astrovera because I am the first to say the card needs getting deleted. But at least it is an 8 cost card (less with Capt Cucumber summon). Maybe that makes it somewhat palatable.
I do not think pet decks are op. And I have died horrible deaths at the hands of Smash pet deck + going viral. Pet decks you see coming and they are linear.
Message 69 of 80 (247 Views)

Re: Anyone who thinks Plants are balanced...

★★ Guide

@npgibbs wrote:

If you are going to say the entire deck plants have access to is OP you really need to give an example instead of rhetoric.

 

And if the takeaway from playing an Octo Zombie cool story is the Octo Zombie then you are missing the trees in the forest. The point of the story is:

 

1. He managed to generate 7 brains on turn 3. Seven. And it was not an inmpossibly hard combination. With reduced brain cards and evolving zombies sitting on a Nebula you can generate a higher than turn brain count in a way that isn't difficult.

 

2. Teleport IS a problem. It breaks the mechanics of the game. The entire reason why Zombies get 2 cycles is because you are only supposed to play tricks on the last cycle.

 

But I see the pro Zombie players are not touching that point with a 10 foot pole. It is one thing to see a Zombie player get to 11 brains on turn 6 and then drop a huge trick but it is another when Zombie players can beat the brain count and then drop a high brain Zombie on an open lane during the trick phase that will either kill you right there and then or give you nightmares to deal with in the next round.

 

Being able to play Zombies on the trick phase needs to go away.

Being able to take your health above 20 needs to go away. 


Concerning 1, it sounds like the main problem is the Nebula.  I, for one, certainly wouldn't shed a tear if EA decided to improve the game by removing Environments altogether.

 

Concerning 2, I get the frustration, but at the same time, I can certainly understand the appeal of such cards, too.  I mean, I regularly face Plant decks (usually Solar Flare) that go the first 7-8 turns without playing a single Plant; just wiping out every single Zombie played so that every combat is just an auto-pass.  Being able to "cheat" in a Zombie after the Plant player has had his say would certainly be nice at times.

Message 70 of 80 (211 Views)

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