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Anyone who thinks Plants are balanced...

by jj48car
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Original Post

Re: Anyone who thinks Plants are balanced...

Champion

Reread what I wrote.  You leaving the lane open for them when you have the ability to play zombies sitting trick phase and have ways of moving plants around the board is your fault.  Sure, it's better in an open lane, but frenzy is better in an occupied then, especially when you give them strike through.  I mean seriously.  You not playing this options is YOUR OWN FAULT.  The end.  

 

I mean if in don't have any removal in my deck to get rid of sharktronic, whose fault is that? Yours for playing it it me for not using the cards that could remove it?  Does it make sharktronic op?  If I don't play cards to remove a 2/4 deadly from my lane with buffed up muscle spout, does that make deadly op?  Does it mean plants should have something like it?  Nope.

 

 

Message 21 of 80 (347 Views)

Re: Anyone who thinks Plants are balanced...

Champion

Regardless of whether you want to argue the other cards, this thread was about the balance of the decks.  I'm using those other examples to show the balance, whether you want to argue that that want your point is irrelevant when they show the overall balance of it in the end.

Message 22 of 80 (345 Views)

Re: Anyone who thinks Plants are balanced...

★★ Guide

@daalnnii

 

I deleted my last post in lieu of this one because I think we’re haveing parallel conversations and I’d rather make my point than get us both censored.

 

So here goes....

 

1. Frenzy and Double Strike are compatible abilities, in that both give potential for multiple attacks and both can allow for attacking through blockers for face damage; however

2. Double Strike has fewer caveats for the “bonus attack” condition. Therefore

3. In a vaccuum, Double Strike is not only similar to but better than Frenzy.

 

This does not imply that I am unsatisfied with Frenzy, or concerned about Double Strike.

 

This does not imply that Plants are better than Zombies, or that the game is unbalanced.

 

The point is merely as written: Plants have access to an ability that is similar to, and in fact better than, Frenzy.

 

If you examine the actual game, I think it would not be difficult to accept this conclusion. If the zombies that currently have Frenzy were granted Double Strike instead, most or all of them would probably have to be nerfed.

Message 23 of 80 (325 Views)

Re: Anyone who thinks Plants are balanced...

[ Edited ]
Champion

But better is where I take issue, I don't feel it's better.  I think it's ease of use is greater, but that doesn't equal better.  Does it attack every round?  Maybe.  it could be killed by a deadly zombie, it might be blocked by a gravestone.  Most other issuances apply to frenzy as well, like killed by a trick, having the effect blocked my another card, or dying in the first assault of the attack phase...

 

But while it may hit twice in every other case, frenzy can hit up to three times.  Combine that with a lane that gives you strick through and you can not only kill both plants, but hit the hero in the face three times in one lane.  That's an incredibly powerful ability, and one that double strike can't match.  I mean, imagine a nurse gargantuar getting fusion frenzied and having a laser base alpha dropped on a lane with a couple weak team up cards...  That's 21 damage and full life from just one lane.  Incredibly powerful.  

 

So while I do feel it may not have the ease of use, it does have equal utility and better potential in the end.  Seems like an equal contender to me.

Message 24 of 80 (308 Views)

Re: Anyone who thinks Plants are balanced...

[ Edited ]
★★ Guide

Nurse doesn’t even have Frenzy. So you’re comparing one card to three? A zombie,  a trick, and an environment? (Across two classes, so only accessible by one hero?)

 

OK. For my plant I pick Gatling Pea. I’ll play fair and choose a plant with Double Strike. For my environment I’ll pick The Red Plant-It. For my trick I’ll choose Sun Strike.

 

I don’t get three attacks, but I’m also not requiring my opponent to have any particular configuration. Also I have lethal in fewer hits, so less chance to super block.

 

I don’t know what you hope to prove with ridiculous scenarios. A Bananasaurus Rex and a Intersteller Bounty Hunter can both end games Turn 4. But I think 1) Bananasarus is better at face damage and 2) Intersteller with Double Strike would be insane.

 

Again, that doesn’t mean I think 3) Bananasaurus, as written, is better than Intersteller, as written.

 

Message 25 of 80 (299 Views)

Re: Anyone who thinks Plants are balanced...

[ Edited ]
Champion

All strategies are about about seven, my friend.  Bananasaurus doesn't come out a monster, it's made a monster over multiple turns (again where a 1/1 deadly could kill it, or bonus track couple destroy it or cancel it's effect),  or with the addition of buffed from other cards, be they plant forf fertilize or a Lily.  Other, stronger injuries repeat cards work best with a fusion.  Don't act like I'm wrong.  

 

And last I checked, I did mention that ease of you was better for double strike (even though it also faces more threats) and the potential of the power goes to zombies.  I actually created a whole post about it.  You should actually read the counters to your debates some time.  You might learn something...  

 

To be honest though, believe what you want.  If a card isn't valuable to you because you may have to set it up to get it's maximum potential, than I truly look forward to meeting you in game.  There are a lot of tough to beat zombie players out there, it'll be nice to get a quick win.  At least I know to use a double strike deck against you.  It's generally not that useful against higher levels, but it appears to be far too strong to get around for some...

Message 26 of 80 (288 Views)

Re: Anyone who thinks Plants are balanced...

★★ Guide

You’re still talking about cards. I’m talking ability comparison. I’ve been at Ultimate for months. (No longer. Months is how long I’ve been playing.)

 

How do you like this card: 3, all zombies get +1/+1 and Double Strike. Draw a card.

 

I know if I had access to this card, games I played would be a lot shorter.

 

The card does not exist, and would not exist. It would be too strong.

 

Cards with Frenzy that are actually in the game are probably at least as viable as cards with Double Strike that are actually in the game. But they also tend to have better stats to compensate for the fact that Frenzy is a weaker ability than Double Strike. Just like cards with no abilities tend to have better raw stats to compensate for their lack of abilities.

 

You’ll notice through all of this that I have made no personal attacks on your ability to play the game. Breathe in, breathe out, and you may decide that we’re not actually on opposite sides of YOUR central argument.

 

Message 27 of 80 (273 Views)

Re: Anyone who thinks Plants are balanced...

[ Edited ]
Champion

Not actually reading what I'm saying is a pretty personal as far as I'm concerned.  What you're saying is a 4 cost 3/3 is hard to kill?  Oh, it has to be set up a bit too be effective!  More than one card played...  You keep acting like double strike just comes out strong and isn't super easy to counter.  Plants don't have gravestones to block frenzy or deadly cards to take care of them with a card that's half the damage and cost.  You keep acting like these things don't matter in a side by side comparison, and ignoring good points about the balance and potential; but they absolutely do matter.  Especially when talking about the balance of effects.  

 

So again, double strike may be easier, but frenzy has more potential (and apparently higher learning curve), but also less ways to effectively deal with it.  Doesn't matter how many cards are used.  That's deck building and set up.  If you aren't doing that anyway, you won't get far.  

 

If you don't take things into account when discussing which is "better" then you're omitting facts to try to win an argument.

 

Edited because I'm better than that

Message 28 of 80 (265 Views)

Re: Anyone who thinks Plants are balanced...

[ Edited ]
Champion

An example of why potential absolutely matters when discussing which is better in comparison.

 

https://youtu.be/7XSlNNrkcLM

 

Does it happen all the time?  Nope, but therethe potential is there...

Message 29 of 80 (259 Views)

Re: Anyone who thinks Plants are balanced...

[ Edited ]
★★ Guide

(Posthumous Editing.)

 

(Posthumous because I am a zombie sympathizer.)

 

(Get it?)

Message 30 of 80 (257 Views)

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