Anyone who thinks Plants are balanced...

[jj48car]

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@npgibbs wrote:

Also Plants only have team up while Zombies have deadly, frenzy, graves, and overshoot.

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Plants also have Double Strike, Splash, and multi-lane attacks.

[daalnnii]

To be fair, bonus attacks are on both sides of the fence... Plant exclusives are team up, multilane and splash. While zombies do have more, I think the strength of the plant exclusives balance it out.

It's the same with Lanes. I think plants have stronger Lanes overall, but zombies have more effective ones when you take cost into consideration.

[puntwothree]

“Plants only have team up while zombies have deadly, frenzy, gravestones, and overshoot.”

Plants have something that is *almost* strictly better than frenzy. It’s called double strike.

Frenzy can’t grant extra attacks in open lanes, and requires 1) zombie to live and 2) plant to die to trigger the bonus. Double strike only requires that the plant lives through the first attack.

There is only one zombie in the game that has built-in, pseudo double strike, and that’s Trickster. (The one zombie that is arguably the most “unfair” in the game.)

[puntwothree]

I didn’t see that this point had been addressed. Sorry if I piled on.

Yeah so Frenzy is only better than Double Strike in combination with other “bonus attack” cards, since triggering a bonus attack on top of Double Strike just causes one iteration of damage, whereas a Frenzied bonus attack can plow through a whole lane and do face damage.

[daalnnii]

Lurch for lunch (combined with deadly zombie...  No reason to complain) says hello

Neuron Imp says hello

Electrician says hello (combine with deadly again)

Mustache monument (you guessed it play a deadly, take out a big plant again)

Gadget scientist gives all science zombies bonus says helli

Gargantuar mime can be especially nasty against double strike decks... ...and it says hello

Plants have zero deadly cards (you could argue briar Rose, but i'd say that's more in line with zombot sharktronic sub, which is by far the stronger card; especially being aquatic) plants have zero gravestones, plants have zero frenzy... Frenzy, btw, can be exceptionally strong against team up cards when paired with strike though.  Most of us learned that from a challenge last year.  You'll get multiple the strikes, all to the face of the plant with a strong enough card.  

On top of that, both sides have a card that completely negates these actions. 

Just because you don't like a card or effect doesn't mean there aren't measures you can take to defend yourself against and doesn't make them overpowered; it just means you're either choosing not to use those measures or are up against a deck style that is a good counter to yours.  It happens to everyone in both sides, there's no way to make a deck that is powerful against every deck style.  There's a deck counter for everything, just not one that is all inclusive.

[puntwothree]

None of those examples are “built in” double strike.

Double Strike is almost strictly better than frenzy.

I am not discussing other effects.

Point stands.

[daalnnii]

You're point may stand, but it's useless.  Just because you don't like that I demolished your point doesn't mean you win, kiddo.  I'd day mime, electrician and scientist are all "built in" and two are kinda better in that you're doing it before the battle phase even starts.  Meaning with a deadly card you can kill whatever double strike I may have out.

And maybe you should learn how to use frenzy more effectively...  If you think double strike is inherently better, you're not the pro you think you are.

But I have every card in the game and have been playing since release, what do I know?

And if say bonus track bucket head and wing nut atan important points to your post.  Again, you not knowing how to play your cards effectively and chilling not to build decks that counter double strike is noone's problem but your own

[puntwothree]

Double Strike and Frenzy are functionally the same when opposed; Double Strike is better when unopposed. Therefore, Double Strike is almost strictly better.

Your examples are not Double Strike the same way Repeat Moss is not Double Strike.

Someone made a claim that Zombies have Frenzy and Plants do not. I am making a claim that Plants have something almost strictly better.

That is not the same as making a claim that Plants are almost strictly better than Zombies.

[daalnnii]

Almost stricty better is strictly your opinion, though.  There are ways for you to move plants around the board after their turn and ways for you to bring zombies into the board after their turn...  Again if you're not using those, whose fault is that?  And if bonus really is that big an issue, play with deadly cards...  Can't bonus attack when a  deadly card kills it.  Or play bonus track bucket head.  Don't act like it's there are no options for you to take to negate the action.

[puntwothree]

Double Strike is better than Frenzy in an open lane (strictly. Not an opinion.)

Double Strike and Frenzy behave similarly with opposition. But even with opposition, Double Strike has some clear advantages. A zombie in opposition to a high-health plant does not attack twice. A frozen zombie does not attack at all.

This is the whole of my argument. I have not once complained that I am unsatisfied with Frenzy, nor that I have trouble with Double Strike. I argued merely that the abilities are similar; that Double Strike is better in a vacuum; that it is therefore not true that “zombies have Frenzy” and “Plants have nothing like it.”