Live Chat Support lied to me, and Steam+Origin In-game lockup issue [ Edited ]

[RolandHazoto]

Okay a lot to unpack here:
I'll run SFC after this post. (Edit: Screenshot attached. Startin to feel like you're reachin for straws man...)
No I cannot connect my controller via a cable as my computer sits about 14 feet from where I game. Like I could, but it wouldn't stay that way and hasn't needed to for my other 700 Steam games so, basically no.
My mobile carrier does not allow for HotSpots, so no I can't do that. (also there's no Wifi on this rig. You can see that in my hardware. Without WiFi I would need to tether, not necessarily hotspot, but still not an option)
And the GPU drivers are up to date. Not only did I mention previously all my software is up to date, but 5 seconds on Google woulda told you those are my newest (stable) drivers too.


As for the roommate stuff, already tried that. (it was easy since he's online less than me and he was also the person I tried playing with when I found this whole mess of an issue)

Let's work together instead of you throwing stuff at me: Why would a network error exist for the game when not on Steam but then be fine on Steam without any changes made to anything?
And why would it be fine when Origin In-game is disabled, while leaving Steam enabled?
And why are Steam Origin games not affected by this issue if non-Steam Origin games are? Are they using different ports or something?
I'm not following what you think the issue is and it seems like you're just throwing random busy work out there, so if you can give me a bit more than "hey try this?" because that's not how you fix things, that's how you band-aid things. (Again, I have 20 years tech support dude. I can save us both time here)

[EA_Darko]

Hey @RolandHazoto when a user submits a DxDiag and I see a number of errors on it I always recommend running the SFC, simply to ensure that all is fine. Going through basic troubleshooting steps is not reaching for straws, it's simply ensuring that all is as it should. 

In relation to the issues you raise:

• For testing purposes can you try using your controller wired to see if you see the same issue? This is simply troubleshooting and trying to narrow down the issue. 
• When I did search earlier on I saw that there were drivers for the Radeon RX 570 released earlier this month: https://www.amd.com/en/support/graphics/radeon-500-series/radeon-rx-500-series/radeon-rx-570

That it all works fine for me and others would point to this issue being system or network related, if the issue was with Origin then more users would be seeing it. I tested earlier with my controllers and was still able to use the Steam and Origin In-Game and the friend's list on Titanfall 2 and other titles. As such we need to troubleshoot this issue to try and narrow down the cause as to why you are having this issue. Have you tried using your account with your controller set up on your roommate's system to see if you see the same issue?

Darko

[RolandHazoto]

Not a single one of those errors points to anything system file related though. That's easy to tell just by looking into the errors. That's why I said it feels like just busy work. (also this is HOW I got good at this. I look up errors specifically and solved them and retained for future use. I don't waste time with blanket attempts, I pursue issues directly)

And that Radeon Driver update from earlier this month isn't in the Recommended branch yet, only optional. I'm set to recommended only to reduce background BS and bloatware. (again, I keep a tight ship) If you REALLY want I can try it, but it's not ideal. EDIT: Tried the 20.8.1. No change.

ANYWAY, just to humour you, I wired the controller to test again; while doing so thinking "this is stupid because the controller has nothing to do with the overlays conflicting" and sure enough it still did it wired with Steam ran as Admin or not, and the 3rd test was done controller-less and it still did it. The controller has nothing to do with the issue, aside from it being the reason why I use Steam.

If you want to actually address the conflict you need to find out what is different between the Steam implementation of Origin and adding Steam to Origin aftermarket interms of rendering the overlays, or perhaps the way permissions are handled. I would do it myself if I could, but this is as close as I can get: talking to someone who is connected to the dev team. If you can find those differences I can find why my system conflicts cuz I just gotta follow the file/permission/access chain. Because again, this doesn't add up SOMEWHERE. Titanfall 2 had this issue, I closed it and Origin and bought it on Steam, installed and launched and the issue wasn't there anymore. I closed that and launched SWBF2 and the issue was there again (and is what I used to test a moment ago). That's not even long enough time for a system file or anything to change (I mean yes TECHNICALY possible, but highly improbable to actually happen), and why I believe it's gotta be something software side.

And for reasons, I won't be using my roommate's machine. Rather not get into the why of it. (we also have very different environments. He's a novice, I'm a poweruser, he could have entirely different conflicts and definitely has different software running than I do, it wouldn't be a very useful test other than to show me it works on other machines like you say)

Update: Currently I'm installing SolarWinds in hopes maybe their application monitor can tell us something. Event Viewer is giving me jack, other than confirming my theory that they aren't actually crashing but just a hanging. (no crash logs or errors in Event Viewer)
This is the first time I've had to go this deep since Windows 10 left Preview, so if you know of any better application monitoring software that doesn't require me to open my wallet, I'm willing to give it a go.
EDIT: SolarWinds Orion is a nightmare to navigate and use as a newcomer when you're looking for just something to monitor what files re being accessed on your local machine. So I'm not having any luck here yet

Update2: I found the big difference between Origin+Steam and Origin+non-Steam. Your Steam releases are relying on an injector exe to load the Steam overlay. Why is this necessary for the Steam releases?

[EA_Darko]

Hey @RolandHazoto as someone who works in tech support, you know that in situations such as this we need to start with basic troubleshooting. When I see a number of errors on a DxDiag I will often suggest running the SFC simply to ensure that if there are any issues with system files they are checked, it's not busywork just starting with the basics and can often help fix an issue.

The same goes for the drivers for your GPU, we always recommend keeping your system fully up to date and if I see that there have been more recent drivers for your system I will recommend trying them just to rule that out as the cause.

Over the weekend I tested this issue on my various machines, my two towers, three laptops and a Surface Pro. When testing I used five different ISPs, my home network, both my neighbours, my phone and a second phone in the house on a different mobile network. I was unable to recreate your issue on any of the devices, this further points to the issue not being related to Origin or Steam but rather specific to your system. It's because of this that I asked you to remove your controller dongle to see if there was any change, I've seen the oddest of issues fixed by the simple removal of hardware and just wanted to check that here.

The reason I asked you to try on your roommates PC was to see if we could rule out a router or ISP issue, it's common enough that we see issues with the friends list being caused by certain router/ISPs that can be fixed by playing around with router settings or talking with the ISP, as such I was hoping that we could rule that out here. 

I didn't ask earlier given your tech background but have you tried a clean boot of your system to test this issue and see if you see the same issues, if not then can you please try this now: https://help.ea.com/en-us/help/faq/how-to-clean-boot-your-pc/  

Solving your issue is all about trying to find the conflict and that will no doubt involve lots of basic troubleshooting. I understand that it can be frustrating but 99 times out of a 100, we solve these system-specific issues with the most basic of troubleshooting.

Darko

[RolandHazoto]

Like I said before you and I have different approaches. You seem content with solving issues without knowing the why of them; but I feel learning the why of them so you can tackle them directly makes you more efficient at your job. If I fix this I want to know how I fixed it and why it happened, so I can fix it faster next time, whereas you seem content just throwing things at things until something works. Our opposite approaches here, and seeming your caseload, our causing frustrations for both of us. (for example you bring up dongles, but I told you previously I don't have one and even bolded that statement earlier in the conversation)

The only way the router/ISP thing would make sense is if the overlays are using different ports depending on Steam+Origin vs Origin.
Is that the case? If it's not the case you are wasting time. If it is the case you can tell me the port differences and I can actually try fixing it.
Also thousands of people have this router as it's provided by Comcast.

And you never answered my question about the overlay injector exe found in Steam+Origin games. Other devs aren't using overlay injectors. Granted my sample size is fairly small in this area, but the fews games I have that use another store while also being on Steam all have the Steam dlls right there in the game exe folder and aren't going through an extra exe. So maybe, if you answered my questions, I can figure out why that exe is allowing them to coexist without conflict.

And of course cleanboot was tested before I ever came here. You forget the part where I told you I tried all the basic crap before ever coming here because this isn't my first rodeo. I even told your chat guy to bump me up a couple levels so we could skip the basic crap.

And obviously my case is about finding the conflict, but we're never going to find it if you don't answer my questions since you're not the one sitting at the machine. The more actual information you give me the more I can pursue and look into. All you keep doing is throwing out blanket solutions that won't find the conflict. Your ISP/Router theory is worthless without knowing the port differences (if any) and if their aren't any differences then it's just busy work, because the only way a router would cause the issue is if there was a port conflict, since both work independently. (not to mention all of this worked in the past, let's not forget that.)

Also your logic doesn't track here:

"The reason I asked you to try on your roommates PC was to see if we could rule out a router or ISP issue, it's common enough that we see issues with the friends list being caused by certain router/ISPs that can be fixed by playing around with router settings or talking with the ISP, as such I was hoping that we could rule that out here. "

Since we'd be on the same router/ISP since we're in the same house, being roommates and all...

[EA_Darko]

Hey @RolandHazoto when dealing with a situation such as this, I of course want to find the reason behind an issue so that if it pops up again we have more info. To do this, like with all issues we need to start with basic troubleshooting. It's great that you have the training and have been able to do some yourself but unless you tell me everything that you have done then I may suggest things that you have tried, quite simply because in 999 cases out of 1000 these issues are fixed by basic troubleshooting.

If you are frustrated then I'm sorry to hear that, I can assure you that helping you does not frustrate me and I don't have a caseload in the traditional sense of the meaning, AHQ is not an EA tech support site, it is more than a support forum — it's a global community focused on players helping players. If you feel that your issue requires direct 121 support with the EA tech team then you can speak with them through help.ea.com

I mentioned dongle in my post as that is how most people connect their wireless controllers, in your post about it you mention that you do not use the official Sony dongle but do not specify what you are using. When I mentioned dongle it's a catch-all for dongles and adaptors as many people call an adaptor a dongle, if you have anything plugged into your machine through USB in order for your controller to work then I simply wanted you to unplug it to see if it made any difference. If you are using internal Bluetooth then it's best to say that.  

As for the ports, many modern routers have any number of bells and whistles that can cause issues, likewise, some ISP's can end up blocking odd things. By using your housemates I simply wanted to see if we could rule out router or ISP being the cause for the issue as if you are connected to the same network and it works for him then this would help narrow down the issue to just your system. If he too saw the same issue then we would need to continue to look into possible network/ISP related issues being the cause.

I think that the best thing to do here would be to speak with our tech team over the phone or live support so that they can walk you through the various troubleshooting in real-time. They will be able to react and adapt their support based on direct feedback as it happens. 

You can contact our live support at help.ea.com.  

To request a callback or speak with a chat adviser:

Click on your product Origin

Then select 'PC

Manage my Account'

Can't log in

Finally, you can choose to receive a callback or begin a chat.

Darko

[RolandHazoto]

"I mentioned dongle in my post as that is how most people connect their wireless controllers, in your post about it you mention that you do not use the official Sony dongle but do not specify what you are using."
What? Yes I did I said I was using Bluetooth! Wtf!? THIS is why I thought you had a caseload or something because you clearly aren't tracking what is going on here nor are you taking time to re-read before you respond. I'm sorry I thought you were busy, but no, you're just bad at your job.

"As for the ports, many modern routers have any number of bells and whistles that can cause issues, likewise, some ISP's can end up blocking odd things. By using your housemates I simply wanted to see if we could rule out router or ISP being the cause for the issue as if you are connected to the same network and it works for him then this would help narrow down the issue to just your system. If he too saw the same issue then we would need to continue to look into possible network/ISP related issues being the cause."
Umm...no? Maybe if you've never setup a network before you might call them "bells and whistles" but uh settings are pretty standard and have generally only had small QoL improvements over they years, with ISP provided ones often having limited access to the settings (but not limited features). And again that would come down to port conflicts either way which is useless if you dont' know the ports, which I'm guessing you don't seein as how you've ignored the question twice.

You also repeatedly ignored my question about the game injector exe.

You have in-effect done absolutely nothing here but busy work and done nothing to help the customer. You've repeatedly ignored the customer's question, side stepped them, and given the customer the run-around making up excuses for "trying things" that clearly don't add up to being an issue if you knew at all what you were talking about. (reminder again your stupid isp theory only holds weight IF the ports are different. If you think other wise you don't know a goddamn thing about routers buddy and you should stop pretending to. I've been setting up a new network every 2-3 years for the last 16. I know what a router will and won't do.)

You were never qualified to try to answer this and you should have passed my messages onto the tech team like I said from the beginning or would have done myself if I was given an email option. And last time I tried your live chat team the guy didn't even understand what I meant by launching an Origin game as a Non-Steam game, so you are directing me to people even less helpful than you.
Please tell me you aren't getting paid for this.

BTW, just a little update: I just did a COMPLETE manual uninstall of Origin and reinstall, which would not launch from the thin setup or the full client and I have to open the full client exe in winrar and run the internal setup from within that JUST to get it to reinstall. I tried many other installers of different kinds and they all opened fine, and the Origin one was the only one that just flat out didn't open. Anyway after having to workaround just to reinstall the goddamn thing, I got it to verify the SWBF2 files and launched and guess what? NO CHANGE! (it's 3am here and I just did this now)
So now every single file that has any connection to this whole mess has been verified and you STILL haven't said why the Injector exe is necessary. The one thing that could very obviously be the key to all of this and you keep pretending like I never brought it up

[RolandHazoto]

I've managed to glean more information, this time using Burnout Paradise Remastered as my test.
It gave me a proper AppHang event which was pretty useless but the WER report for it does have the problem signatures. They were consistent across multiple reports, so my hope is that the dev team can tell me something useful from them:

Log Name: Application
Source: Windows Error Reporting
Date: 8/25/2020 10:29:02 PM
Event ID: 1001
Task Category: None
Level: Information
Keywords: Classic
User: N/A
Computer: Rolands-PC
Description:
Fault bucket 2008854916673287374, type 5
Event Name: AppHangB1
Response: Not available
Cab Id: 0

Problem signature:
P1: BurnoutPR.exe
P2: 1.0.0.0
P3: 5b365b73
P4: c952
P5: 134217728
P6:
P7:
P8:
P9:
P10:

Attached files:
\\?\C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\WER\Temp\WER9B88.tmp.WERInternalMetadata.xml
\\?\C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\WER\Temp\WER9B98.tmp.xml
\\?\C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\WER\Temp\WER9BA9.tmp.csv
\\?\C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\WER\Temp\WER9BC9.tmp.txt
\\?\C:\Users\Roland\AppData\Local\Temp\WERB75F.tmp.appcompat.txt

These files may be available here:
\\?\C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\WER\ReportArchive\AppHang_BurnoutPR.exe_74a7e41eb1672d990f868d1c4c399264810a6f_cd5f6e4c_6ebeead9-d8cc-488a-bb29-5b95c1fa32c4

Analysis symbol:
Rechecking for solution: 0
Report Id: f991df81-cd6f-4f7e-96f7-8f184913ef54
Report Status: 268435456
Hashed bucket: fd2c255c2e8e16c79be0e2e7419bb4ce
Cab Guid: 0
Event Xml:
<Event xmlns="http://schemas.microsoft.com/win/2004/08/events/event">
<System>
<Provider Name="Windows Error Reporting" />
<EventID Qualifiers="0">1001</EventID>
<Level>4</Level>
<Task>0</Task>
<Keywords>0x80000000000000</Keywords>
<TimeCreated SystemTime="2020-08-26T02:29:02.040654100Z" />
<EventRecordID>39059</EventRecordID>
<Channel>Application</Channel>
<Computer>Rolands-PC</Computer>
<Security />
</System>
<EventData>
<Data>2008854916673287374</Data>
<Data>5</Data>
<Data>AppHangB1</Data>
<Data>Not available</Data>
<Data>0</Data>
<Data>BurnoutPR.exe</Data>
<Data>1.0.0.0</Data>
<Data>5b365b73</Data>
<Data>c952</Data>
<Data>134217728</Data>
<Data>
</Data>
<Data>
</Data>
<Data>
</Data>
<Data>
</Data>
<Data>
</Data>
<Data>
\\?\C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\WER\Temp\WER9B88.tmp.WERInternalMetadata.xml
\\?\C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\WER\Temp\WER9B98.tmp.xml
\\?\C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\WER\Temp\WER9BA9.tmp.csv
\\?\C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\WER\Temp\WER9BC9.tmp.txt
\\?\C:\Users\Roland\AppData\Local\Temp\WERB75F.tmp.appcompat.txt</Data>
<Data>\\?\C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\WER\ReportArchive\AppHang_BurnoutPR.exe_74a7e41eb1672d990f868d1c4c399264810a6f_cd5f6e4c_6ebeead9-d8cc-488a-bb29-5b95c1fa32c4</Data>
<Data>
</Data>
<Data>0</Data>
<Data>f991df81-cd6f-4f7e-96f7-8f184913ef54</Data>
<Data>268435456</Data>
<Data>fd2c255c2e8e16c79be0e2e7419bb4ce</Data>
<Data>0</Data>
</EventData>
</Event>

 Update: The plot thickens even further. Mirror's Edge Catalyst doesn't have this issue at all; but it is not flawless. Origin Overlay doesn't work in it when enabled, and if I try to open Overlay while it's loading it hangs (but not a proper error report one) and it hangs when closing the game. Otherwise it strangely is playable with both overlays enabled. (Ironic as it's the one non-multiplayer game I currently have installed and the whole reason I need the overlays both working is for multiplayer games)

[RolandHazoto]

1 Final update on this:
I bought Star Wars Battlefront 2 on the most recent Steam sale (70% off) just to prove you wrong that it wasn't software on my end.
Guess what? It works flawlessly.
Meaning this is entirely an issue for your non-Steam versions of SWBF2, Burnout Paradise, and Titanfall 2. Mirror's Edge catalyst works but blocks the overlay, and BF5 works without any issue at all. I'd test my other games but it's not lkke you listened in the first place, so whatever.
All future games I'll be buying through Steam since Support can't listen to me and make Steam play nice with the non-Steam versions. Also gonna see if I can't get some kind of compensation for the fact that I had to buy 2 of my games a second time just to prove you damn people wrong.