Miranda and Jack again, clearly it's bugged

[tedybear315]

Evening'  (or morning)

Finished the game for my 2nd try.  Sadly I assigned "Grunt" where he shouldn't have been, and he got killed off at the last battle.  So I'm trying to reload a past save and assign that spot to the bounty hunter "Zeddyboy" as I personally can't stand that sob.  If someone's going to get the boot from ME3 when I transfer the character over?  I'd love to see him stay 'dead'.

Okay,  besides the point.   I was heading to do Jack's quest last when I had my paragon as maxed out as possible.  It was at about 93% or so full, and despite making no 'renegade' choices-  The game still applied them.  (Issue #1:  when only selecting a paragon choice?  Game shouldn't be dumping renegade points into my character.  That's a design flaw that's annoying)  Of course I misjudged when the ship was going to be raided, so to save my 'love interest' (Kelly)  I decided to go in for the rescue.

Jack's quest then was completed after the main quest and game completion.  Paragon was maxed after the end of the game when I did this.  Full to the brim!....(and that's without the death mask!)

And of course I did it both ways.  Support Jack....Get Miranda ticked off....  Support Miranda?  Jack basically tells me to pi&& up a rope.

The blue 'charm' option does not appear.  Paragon is 100% maxed out!  Game's over,  talked with everyone,  did the side quests, etc...  Either Miranda or Jack is gonna be upset.

Okay...   Miranda has a key quest line in ME3 that I would like to see her survive (She would need to be 'loyal' to do so).  In my first play through sadly I didn't get Jack loyal---and she was killed off, so no appearance in ME3.

If Jack survives and is NOT loyal?  Does this effect her appearance in ME3?  Or is she still batcrap crazy and doesn't show up at all.  I'm considering getting that DLC pack in a week or so for ME3 and would love to see the entire gang together (less Zaeed...He's a horses rear end)

Trying to phrase this as not to give up many spoilers.  I'm digging on the game, but some of the mechanics for these "Loyalty" bits are really one sided.

Steve-

[holger1405 · Accepted solution]

@tedybear315 

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tedybear315 wrote:

Evening'  (or morning)

Finished the game for my 2nd try.  Sadly I assigned "Grunt" where he shouldn't have been, and he got killed off at the last battle.  So I'm trying to reload a past save and assign that spot to the bounty hunter "Zeddyboy" as I personally can't stand that sob.  If someone's going to get the boot from ME3 when I transfer the character over?  I'd love to see him stay 'dead'.

---

Then it is best to finishing him of during his loyalty mission.

---

tedybear315 wrote:

 Of course I misjudged when the ship was going to be raided, so to save my 'love interest' (Kelly)  I decided to go in for the rescue.

---

Spoiler

Kelly's romance is somewhat limited, at least in comparison to others. The Romance will only be briefly "continued" in ME3. She is not present in the Endgame of ME3 nor in the Citadel DLC.  (And you better make the right choice in telling her what to do in your first conversation in ME3, otherwise she will be killed.)

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tedybear315 wrote:

Jack's quest then was completed after the main quest and game completion.  Paragon was maxed after the end of the game when I did this.  Full to the brim!....(and that's without the death mask!)

And of course I did it both ways.  Support Jack....Get Miranda ticked off....  Support Miranda?  Jack basically tells me to pi&& up a rope.

The blue 'charm' option does not appear.  Paragon is 100% maxed out!  Game's over,  talked with everyone,  did the side quests, etc...  Either Miranda or Jack is gonna be upset.

---

You're are lucky that Jack survived the loyalty mission despite not being loyal.
Whether a paragon/renegade option is available in this situation is based on percentages, meaning based on the overall points you could accumulated vs the points that you have accumulated.  
If you do this mission after the end of the main game you must have accumulated a very high number of paragon points, because it is compared to all Paragon points available in game.

So it is actually easier to get the Charm option if you do Jacks loyalty mission earlier in game. You still need a very high amount of Paragon points, afaik it is the most difficult Charm option to reach. 

For ME3: It doesn't mater if Jack is loyal in ME2 or not, her surviving is only dependent on the choices you make in ME3.

[holger1405 · Accepted solution]

@tedybear315 

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tedybear315 wrote:

Evening'  (or morning)

Finished the game for my 2nd try.  Sadly I assigned "Grunt" where he shouldn't have been, and he got killed off at the last battle.  So I'm trying to reload a past save and assign that spot to the bounty hunter "Zeddyboy" as I personally can't stand that sob.  If someone's going to get the boot from ME3 when I transfer the character over?  I'd love to see him stay 'dead'.

---

Then it is best to finishing him of during his loyalty mission.

---

tedybear315 wrote:

 Of course I misjudged when the ship was going to be raided, so to save my 'love interest' (Kelly)  I decided to go in for the rescue.

---

Spoiler

Kelly's romance is somewhat limited, at least in comparison to others. The Romance will only be briefly "continued" in ME3. She is not present in the Endgame of ME3 nor in the Citadel DLC.  (And you better make the right choice in telling her what to do in your first conversation in ME3, otherwise she will be killed.)

---

tedybear315 wrote:

Jack's quest then was completed after the main quest and game completion.  Paragon was maxed after the end of the game when I did this.  Full to the brim!....(and that's without the death mask!)

And of course I did it both ways.  Support Jack....Get Miranda ticked off....  Support Miranda?  Jack basically tells me to pi&& up a rope.

The blue 'charm' option does not appear.  Paragon is 100% maxed out!  Game's over,  talked with everyone,  did the side quests, etc...  Either Miranda or Jack is gonna be upset.

---

You're are lucky that Jack survived the loyalty mission despite not being loyal.
Whether a paragon/renegade option is available in this situation is based on percentages, meaning based on the overall points you could accumulated vs the points that you have accumulated.  
If you do this mission after the end of the main game you must have accumulated a very high number of paragon points, because it is compared to all Paragon points available in game.

So it is actually easier to get the Charm option if you do Jacks loyalty mission earlier in game. You still need a very high amount of Paragon points, afaik it is the most difficult Charm option to reach. 

For ME3: It doesn't mater if Jack is loyal in ME2 or not, her surviving is only dependent on the choices you make in ME3.

[tedybear315]

Yeah it's a pain to get all those 'charm' points when the game auto assigns 'renegade' points during a quest when you've not done any renegade actions or dialog.  For some reason I've got just short of 1/4" from the top of the paragon and about 1/4" up from the bottom for the 'renegade'.  It's that lame auto-add nonsense that's tripping me up.

I'm doing a replay just before the chase into the collector base.  I reloaded just before getting the device to go into collector territory and had Legion rewrite.  Nice boost in paragon.  I wish the DLC's contributed to the paragon level.  Shadow Broker was great, but dropping the usual quest where you tracked down the agent in her office lost a bit of paragon experience.  I still have the 'mad scientist' to take care of....  I did that on the first play through with the DLC download before taking on the collectors.  Didn't add anything to Paragon or Renegade.

I'm hopeful by assigning a loyal member to the team that shouldn't 'die' like my favorite Krogan did for the 2nd to final battle.  I've checked the 'chart' and think Garris (I know I'm probably slaughtering names here....)  He should come out on top, and I'll have prickzilla do the escort back to Normandy with the survivors.  If he dies?  I really don't give two knots about him.  I know they designed him that way, but his mission annoyed me.

I might do my next walk-though using an import from ME1 and see if that helps nudge things up.  I do like the game(s) but the game play leaves a bit to be desired.  Not to mention getting stuck in some really odd pixelated places where you're stuck and can't move...

So probably get Jacks quest and Miranda's quest done once presented, and go full paragon again and hope one of them pulls their head out of their rear ends?   I think Jack has more personality then Miranda.  I'd like to see her progression in ME3 and I'm getting over with Miranda the Princess's attitude.

LOL!  Sure, like these are real people....

Have a good weekend!

Steve-

[holger1405]

@tedybear315 

The game don't assigns renegade points to you if you don't do a "renegade" action, some actions are ambivalent though.

Here is a exact guide of all morality points in game.

[tedybear315]

Sadly that's where I (and many others) consider it 'bugged'.

A simple google search shows many many other players have had the same problem and issue where the game will suddenly give out 'renegade' as part of a quest line regardless of what the player has gone with.  Not trying to argue the point, but it's a well established complaint against the games mechanics.  And one I do consider to be a 'bug' that has hounded enough players that it already is heavy on Google's search engine when I started to research this.

Just sayin' that they stacked this one much to high for many players tastes.  Plus asking or doing a 'neutral' comment shouldn't get credited either way.   Considering I've not done any renegade actions during this play through?  To see the points get stacked up like that is not kosher.

An opinion only of course.  Your mileage may vary.  (Also I did read the guide.  LOL!!  Quite a trip down dialog lane....)

Later's

Steve-

[holger1405]

@tedybear315 

Well, it is a matter of taste, no doubt, I myself always liked the ambivalence of that system. 

Makes you think twice before answering.

But it is not a bug, it is working as intended.

It also has no influence on the actual Charm options in game, it doesn't matter how many renegade points you have, only the amount of paragon points gathered until the point in game you do Jacks mission, or any other mission that has a Charm option in it, counts.   

[tedybear315]

Not to sound rude, but what the heck.

Each time someone says  "Working as intended"...

I get reminded of the Diablo 3 Game by Blizzard.  That one had bugs and such that was extremely bad.  They had to buff skills and nerf other skills due to things being so badly out of kilter it wasn't even amusing.  I spent a couple of years on that forum fielding questions and such.  And I'll never forget when the one "Dev" logged into a few conversations and without any consideration in the least for the players?  (They would take servers off line to 'maintenance/code updates' weekly)

 The one "Dev"  said  "It's working as intended....."   Heck, it became a running joke!!  Said that right in the public forums and got skewered by the fan base!

Can't remember which one said it-  But his career in game development was short lived.  Some of the other "Dev's" that where paying attention to the exchange modified some of the nerf's and buff's to bring it back to a playable and enjoyable level.

Any-rate:  Yep it's an issue for a great many players.  In fact on my last play through I've got Paragon at the max level on the gauge.  (I selected continue to finish up some side quests)  Jack was 'loyal'...  (love her new hair style in ME3... Wish she was around longer)  Miranda after giving me major 'kudo's for getting the job done, and talking to each crew member getting even more paragon!  

Miranda upon talking a second time to clear the air:   Blew me off and said to talk with Jack for small talk.

And that's with the game finished,  paragon maxed out...and only 1/4" renegade showing on the bar.

Now I'd call that a lousy design.  But opinions are varied...

S-

[holger1405]

@tedybear315 

Don't want to sound rude either, but just because you can't make it work don't means it should be easier. 

This specific task, to keep both Jack and Miranda Loyal should not be easy, they hate each other.  

As said, it is afaik the most difficult Paragon persuade to reach, and getting it easy, seeing the relationship of these two, would make the whole morality system obsolete and boring.

So yes, opinions are varied, and I guess we have to agree to disagree here.

Have fun gaming!