Why did Madden get rid of play designing?

[Mezik72]

I thought the play design feature that was on madden 2004 or 2005 was a great thing.  Why didn't it make it back.

[MaddenUniversity]

The play editor was pulled because of FEAR...  Mind you that was a fear of people designing glitches and using them in online games, despite most people being unable to detail the difference between good play design and one that breaks the programming.  Basically, any play that is hard to counter is considered a glitch... 

Case in point, in Madden NFL 2004 there was a way to beat Man Under 2, which at the time was the most popular defensive played called in online games.  The technique, initially called the Wally-B (after the guy that used it in tournament play), used the Playmaker feature to assign a Flat route to a Flanker.  That flanker, was then sent in motion across the formation but instead of clearing the line, the ball was snapped as the Flanker reached the TE inside shoulder.  The defensive players manning up on the TE and WR would swap coverage (a technique commonly referred to as Banjo), usually causing a linebacker to cover the WR who reverses field back to the flat.  The TE, and sometimes the DB that is now covering him, would preform a natural rub that created a ton of separation in the flat.  The Quarterback could often deliver the pass quickly to the wide open receiver in the flat.  This was the first play to be called the "Motion Glitch."

Up until that point, no one had ever seen this technique employed in the NFL in quite that way.  Of course, there were rubs used in compression sets and Trips, but they rarely involved motion. It took 11 years before the first "Motion Glitch" was seen in the NFL, when the Dallas Cowboys ran the Wally-B concept with playaction against the Detroit Lions in the 3rd quarter.  The play worked almost EXACTLY the same in real life against the Lions man coverage as it did in Madden 2004.  The defender ran with the motion man and over the top of the linebackers and had his back turned as the flanker reversed field and caught the pass in the flat.  Joe Buck, who was doing the play-by-play for Fox Sports, made specific mention of how odd the play looked. Kevin Ogletree, the motioned flanker, caught the pass in the flat - WIDE OPEN - and sprinted until he was knocked out at the 1-yard line.  The play was so close to being a score that Jason Garrett challenged the play (he lost the challenge)...

The next, and only other, time that the Wally-B was used in an NFL game was later that same season.  The Lions, who almost gave up a touchdown to the Cowboys, liked the play so much that they tried the Wally-B concept against the Carolina Panthers, but the Panthers were in a Cover 3 Sky zone coverage.  The cornerback followed the motioned flanker, but when the ball was snapped the corner bailed into his deep third and the Strong Safety rotated down to the flat.  When the flanker reversed field and caught the pass, he had two defenders on him in an instant and was tackled for a gain of 3 yards. John Lynch, who was FOx Sports color commentator for the game, specifically mentioned the play from the Lions vs. Cowboys matchup and that the play WOULD HAVE WORKED if the Panthers had been playing Man Coverage...

I mention all that to say that different coverages existed in Madden 2004 that were not victimized by the Wally-B, some were even man coverage primarily.  As a matter of fact, many man coverage defenses of Madden 2004 avoided the pitfalls of the Wally-B, because the technique relied on two defenders in man coverage preforming the Banjo technique.  If the defense called a play with the LB aligned over the TE was blitzing, the Wally-B didn't work.  If the defense called a play with the LB was covering the flats, the Wally-B didn't work.  Even if the defense called Man Under 2, but lined the LB assigned in man coverage to the TE inside the DB covering the flanker (via shift or otherwise) when the ball was snapped, the coverage wasn't Banjoed. All MINOR defensive adjustments available to any player that wanted to use them, but most people wanted to complain about their ONE unadjusted defense getting beat by a well designed concept...

The phenomenon of complaining about things being overpowered forced EA to yank the Play Editor...  Instead, we were given the ability to make our own Custom Playbooks (of which I am an AVID USER), but the choices of stock plays are redundant and geared toward 5WR and Shotgun formations (which I don't use). 

Thank you for giving me the chance to spread the word about why we still can't design our own plays...  Lots of people forget that every play was designed by someone to specifically take advantage of something their opponent is doing.  Heck, Chuck Noll designed his Trap play on a napkin. 

Later

[EA_Blueberry]

@Mezik72 

Was a fan as well! @MaddenUniversity made some very strong points on it's experimentation and we can't say it will never make a return, but for this time being we are not aware of any future plans of adding it.

Have you played Superstar KO yet? I love how the playbooks are shrunken down to only a certain amount of plays (Some coaches have more plays depending on their strengths). It would be pretty cool though if there was an option for every team to be able to improve a few custom plays. We all have our money plays we wish were included in that mode. 

[smr61919]

I LOVED create a play! It was one of my absolute favorite parts. From combining plays from similar formations to creating my own plays and formations.

I have bought madden every year for the last two decades and honestly I would happily pay twice as much each year if there was a create a play feature that could be used in franchise mode.

Every year I hope they will bring it back and let us truly act like coaches, seriously immerse ourselves as innovators of the game.

[EA_Blueberry]

@smr61919 

Create a play was fun to experiment with for sure. I think with today's version of Madden it gives you a very robust selection of audibles on the fly so you're able to quickly customize a play before the snap. Not 100% the same thing but it's the closest thing to it.

I know some players would likely develop some exploits to certain create-a-plays which would require the team to address and that could be an ongoing battle throughout the year. While it might be fun to play with, the downside is that it would also lead to a lot of frustration from opponents whom these plays are being used against. 

[MaddenUniversity]

@EA_Blueberry On the contrary... I think Create a Play would prevent exploits in virtual real time. And with online sharing of custom playbooks, we can literally counter and adjust to anything strategic (personnel, position, and tempo) more nimbly as a community of football gamers instead of waiting for title updates. That alone would free up developers to work on critical game items - instead of being focused on every minute complaint from the community's lowest common denominator...

Frankly, I was personally adjusting to what the online Madden community called glitches as early as Madden NFL 2003; two years before defensive hot routes. Since then, we've been given even more potential for adjustments while seeing the stock playbooks become more and more vanilla (where are Double X, Y, or Z in the Dime formations?), unless you use shotgun (I don't).

It's high time to bring back a play editor that works with custom playbooks - if for nothing more than to allow players to RELAX pre-snap instead of being rushed to make 100 adjustments to stock plays that don't work while lining up.

Later

[smr61919]

I know MUT is the king because of on going revenue but if the fear is Create-a-Play would unbalance things, then just allow it in Franchise or local play and not online play. Personally I think it should be allowed everywhere but at least this would be a start and a way to test it's impact on the game. Again, and I know I may be in the minority but, I would pay $60-$70 or more just for the feature of Create-a-Play/Playbook. The amount of game play hours and fun I would get out of just the creation portion (plus then using it in Franchise) would be well worth it.

[jpcl221]

It's not an exploit if your worthless company would put it's money into development rather than marketing to develop the correct physical simulation model so that no formation was unstoppable, but rather an more intelligent player could design a counter, and then a counter to a counter, and so on. It's called innovation, and it allows a person to actually play a dynamic game instead of a static predetermined micro transaction piece of trash, and momentum shouldn't be determined by a select few preconditions being met, and there should be a lag in player learning based on switching systems (and how long in a given system, and player work ethic and intelligence). But hey, the intelligence and actual football fundamentals teaching that madden (and I guess the developers back then) brought to Madden University back then has been replaced by the lazy, greedy, unintelligent executive ranks that have accumulated by Madden winning the winner take all market structure game (by actually having a good product years ago) years ago and having no real competition to force innovation. Some of the things like switching consoles should take a fair amount of work/time to re-code to, but some of this can't be (though maybe it should be) much more than an 'if then else' statement and some basic GUI junk. Basically all Madden is now is a roster update, but at least the blockers learning to adapt to pass rusher redundancy was an improvement (though I never bought that version, because why should I shell out new game money for one still somewhat slight improvement, especially with what should be the capabilities today). But hey, add some more micro transactions and player celebrations and unique clothing/graphics for the stadium audience (static garbage). 

[hunter328]

I know I’m a little late to this party, but as someone who just started playing Madden again after several years away, I too was wondering why there was no play creator.

I get what you’re saying about it being frustrating for opponents trying to figure out how to counter these plays, but isn’t that a core component of football?

I love coaches like Andy Reid who isn’t afraid to try something new and strange.  Watching the Chiefs using an occasional gadget play that you’ve never seen before and watching the defense try to figure it out is one of my favorite aspects of football and unfortunately it’s an aspect that is impossible to recreate in Madden these days.

Maybe once the AI gets to the point where it can better recognize alignments/formations etc and the possible routes the players could take from them then it will return.  I’ve got to think the main reason it’s not there now isn’t that it fools other players, but that it fools all of the non-player controlled players, ie, the AI.  The possibility that a created play would make the AI react in an unrealistic way, say with defenders seemingly ignoring an obvious threat, or even having the custom  play cause defenders to tangle up an the AI not knowing where to send them or what to tell them to do, sounds like it would be the real problem.

In any case, I hope the technology or the abilities of the programmers eventually gets to the point where creating custom plays can return to Madden.

As someone else said, I’d be happy for it to come back, even if it wasn’t in all modes.  
Better yet, have “Allow Custom Plays” be something you can toggle on or off, where unless both sides agree to use them, it’s turned off.  That would give the game a way to keep the integrity of ranked matches while also allowing for the feature’s return for use by the players who might care less about those types of games and are more into the strategy and creativity that games using custom plays would allow.

Thanks for listening (if this thread ever gets visited anymore.  I probably just wasted a lot of time arguing my point to myself).

[EA_Blueberry]

@hunter328

I'll bump this over to the team as a request. I imagine if players are able to create their own plays it can result in potential exploits and bugs that need to be addressed, therefore post-launch Support has to be there for the community too.

My concern personally is whether the creation of plays will ultimately just lead to the community using the same dozen or so plays that everyone sees as super successful. It could be seen as a flaw at that point if a defensive counter isn't show. What I'd like to see if that is added is an updated list of what counters what based off community use, that way you can at least toss in some recommended plays to weigh in on that concern.

If there are certain plays you want to see that you have an idea of creating, what would they be? The team could consider adding those specific ones. The Yard has a ton of creativity in it compared to what you see in other parts of the games. So if you're looking at more trick plays let us know what you want to see.