Wraith is nerfed to DEATH!!! [ Edited ]

[Kuromukuroo]

@TriumphkutterSrly? Yes Sherlock... I literally meant double size in the concept of surface area, not a sarcazm to describe this stupidity when model is much smaller then hitbox!

If you think like this pleas start to complain about lifeline hitbox, shes hard to hit as wraith before - so, she should have now new hitbox, bigest then real model and with big head...

Nerfing based on winrate is not any solution - its stupidy!

[Triumphkutter]

no its not, because the samplesize is very big and therefor telling.

also: they already stated that giving legends different hitboxes was a crucial mistake.

so they either do it like they did now, or they rework the whole model into a bigger version which wouldnt fit the old legends persona at all.

they tried to fix her superior strength for several seasons via nerfs to her skillset which obviously didnt to the trick.

most played character wich also has the highest winrate by far (in every single devision, from bronze to master, not just overall) is not an outcome of "wraith players are just better, deal with it".

[Kuromukuroo]

@Triumphkutter If your reasoning were correct, the lifeline argument is the perfect answer to it.
(you keep trying to get around this topic like everyone who complained about her for no reason)

Many good wraith players move to horizon - now they will start to nerfing her..

I will update this sentense
Nerfing based on winrate not considering with skills is not any solution - its stupidy!

[Triumphkutter]

well, lifeline just is not an argument at all,because she has no movementabilitys.

Also: she has different movement animations which also have big impact on the modelsurface

[Kuromukuroo]

@TriumphkutterOf course it is - you talk about a small model all the time and when you get a similar example, it's not because? Because it's not Wraith. You choose your arguments for your thesis kid...

[Triumphkutter]

ofc, the positure of the body has a lot to do with the actual model.

the way YOU compare it is like this (and this is also how the suface area is measured in general)

but this does not take into account how the legend actually moves. 

moving more bent forward results in a different - and smaller - actual  hittable surfacearea, even if the numbers say it is bigger.

even as she is not moving in the naruto style anymore, she still leans forward while running.

[Kuromukuroo]

@Triumphkutter For me both moving are very similar, dificaulty at shooting are same in both case. I know very much people with same point of view as mine. Only lifeline players aren`t so sweaty, nothing more.

We distinguish between two types of apex players:
- the first one who has no problem with shooting wraith, as most of my friends do - noone complain about it.
(after all nerf they just joking about how respawn will try to kill Wraith on every new update)
- another who will try to explain theyself, who dont get that they are simply week at shooting, and they try convince everyone that this nerf was needed.

[Zamaha400]

@Kuromukuroo Well this debate is kind of rough. You bring up a good point about Lifeline's size being comparable to Wraith and @Triumphkutter didn't initially say it was size + animation that made Wraith a problem so point for you. He may not be avoiding your point @Kuromukuroo but it does look that way. I'd also agree that making her head hitbox bigger was unnecessary if its already around the size of every other Legend (which it more or less should have been.)

Beyond that your arguments are crap. Smaller targets are harder to hit and there's no arguing against that. Can a good player hit Wraith? Absolutely. Can they hit them as easily as they hit Caustic or Gibraltar? No and they're lying if they say its the same. Even if you can shoot the wings off a fly its still easier to hit the broad side of a barn.

Lastly if they went straight from Wraith to Horizon then it REALLY looks like they just want an OP Legend. Their abilities and playstyles are nothing alike with the only similarities being both characters are tougher to hit than other Legends. Honestly if the evolution of your character selection looks like this (Wraith - Broken hitbox Pathfinder - Wraith - Horizon) it just looks like you choose OP hard to hit Legends.

[Kuromukuroo]

@Zamaha400
Ofcours it is more dificault to shoot smaller target, i never said that it isnt. Did I?
I never say that good player can shoot with same dificault at small and big legends. Did I?
I say that good player dont have problem with small legends and dont complain about it.
If legends are diferent and you can choose small, big, medium character - you can choose by ability, by styleplay, so dificaulity must be diferent by this or other way.

You said my argument is crap - in my opinion argument saying that all legends should be same easy to shoot is crap!
I can`t blame caustic campers because they want to do that, i dont blame gibby who have 300hp with his shield because he is heavy tank, i dont blame wraith, path players to be sweaty and wanna to play fast or running away like octane.
Something for something - choose - play - don`t complain!

Players are jealouse about small hitbox on other legend, why not to start use it - the problem start when people wanna other ability with other legends. They don`t get it - something for something. They think only they styleplay is correct and legends should be adabt to it. Maybe we will make gibby with lifeline hitbox - i bet they want...

Players should learn and adabt, how to play against other character, how game its made, not crying because they can`t hit small one - not cry because can`t kill gibby with one mag or can`t get octane runing away with 1hp - simply, if another can do that mean that you need learn to play!
If another can`t too - then dev should think about rework.
But devs do it only to change pickrate and sell more skins of other characters.

I didint say nothing about any nerf, but this one was unnecessary and was to much to not saying nothing - if hitbox is biggest then model something is just wrong!
If people say that this should be like that - something is wrong!

[KrakaDrak]

@Whisp3rD34th she's still top tier pick, all pro's run her in their teams, maybe gibbie competes with her powerlevel, but comparing a legend to another legend who is 2nd place is really pushing things out of proportion (i mean just compare crypto/rampart/mirage with wraith, its no contest)
maybe if they kept her hitbox as it is, but rework her ultimate into a more casual based skill instead of a proleague team teleport cheat device, she might be more fun for casuals and less of an autopick for pro's, even still her super small size is still at the core of her powerlevel