Re: Legend (im)balance - General look

by fartnitepalyer
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Legend (im)balance - General look

I think it doesn't come to a surprise that we always come across people who say "Buff this" or "nerf that" - Rightfully so, because everyone has their own approach to the game, and everyone sees content differently. So saying that someone's complaint is invalid is a weak move to do. Anyway, I want to talk about the general legend (im)balance.

 

Over the course of the many games I have played, I have used a lot of legends, but also played against a lot of legends. And in several situations I thought to myself "hey, this legend feels underwhelming" or "hey, that legend is pretty good!" - So for instance, I found Bangalore and Crypto to be very underwhelming, while I found Bloodhound and Pathfinder to be absolutely great. Funnily enough, despite Crypto being more of the legend I would be playing due to his spy-nature, I still found his skill set to be vastly different from what I usually would like him for.

 

And while playing or playing against all of those legends, I found that some are way more commonly seen than others. The reason for that usually is because those legends that I did see a lot of in every match were much more versatile and usable during a game compared to others which were conditional or straight-up useless. Which brings me to the misconception of balancing and versatility. Someone being used a lot does not automatically mean that he is overpowered. It could also be that his general area of use is much wider. In a fast-paced game about getting to a ring fast and surviving, the best legend to have is one that is fast paced that can get to a ring fast and can survive well.

 

Balance problems are kind of difficult to point out. Is Caustic truly bad? was Pathfinder truly overpowered? How do you find that out? (tip: Testing, scenario comparison, value and math, you'd be surprised how high up there Caustic truly is)

 

Let's explain those above stated points with a recent event.

 

Pathfinder was nerfed. so his tactical cooldown went up from 15 seconds to 35 seconds, which a ton of people were upset about. Both rightfully so, but also not exactly rightfully. There is a reason why Pathfinder is a popular choice. His overall skill set is a healthy mix between mobility, utility and combat compatibility. His grappling hook can be used for a variety of things, such as grappling onto ledges to get a higher ground, a quick escape behind an obstacle, or grab onto enemies to have an easier time aiming. His hitbox gives a good amount of 'mid-combat evasion', and his ultimate serves as a good travel ability, utility but also escape ability.

 

And due to the majority of the time you are in open space where getting shot at isn't all that uncommon, having a set of abilities that helps traversing said area is of course a LOT more useful.

 

So what made Pathfinder interesting to play is his overall versatility. In other words, he may not have been overpowered. But in a grand scheme perspective, he has something that others don't have: Adaptation. For the squad he is an overall great choice due to the abilities. And a skilled pathfinder player can easily shred a whole enemy squad without breaking a sweat. That is a useful addition to the squad. His tactical is also great. It gives precognition and foresight, which is a useful trait to have.

 

For comparison, let's look at a different legend. How about Bangalore? So, here is the thing (and truth): I rarely see Bangalore players. And those that I see are either newbies, or some that just made her a main. But generally, I see far more Wattson/Wraith/Gibraltar than Bangalore. The reason behind that is that Bangalore's skill set is overall lacking. For instance, smoke is obviously a very great ability, and good for defense. The problem behind that is that it puts both teams on an equal position. They cannot see you, but you cannot see them either unless you have a synergizing team (Crypto/Bloodhound) - That puts the team into a spot of where certain combinations have to be made in order to make use of the ability. At the same time, her ultimate is equally lackluster.

 

It's area denying, and makes sure to suppress enemies. But the time it takes to actually arm this ability is already a death sentence, and can already be a waste before it's even used. I don't argue that this ability is still good in it's own way, but quite frankly the only advantage it really puts onto your team is a potential escape in a tough situation, or potential suppression. Her passive helps with that in some degree, but is specific to her.

 

So Bangalore compared to Pathfinder is a lot less versatile. This is of course also a matter of perspective. But to be honest, I take Pathfinder over Bangalore simply because he offers me more in comparison.

 

All in all, and that is really something I have been looking at for a while: Look over the legends and figure out how versatile they are. It can go one or the other way. Either everyone is specialized and only good in certain scenarios, or everyone is good at most of the things and are prismatic with their abilities. Having a mix obviously overshadows those who are more specialized with those who are way more universal and open.

 

Let's actually discuss this.

 

Kind regards - Peri

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Re: Legend (im)balance - General look

★ Guide
@Peri_Longbow_plz you have put it in a very simple way, which help people to understand that this game is very scenario based, for example if you have Gibi in your team and it's the last circle, and the other teams don't have any Gibi or watson, the are doomed for sure, Or the circle ends in a building and you have a caustic or Watson it is near impossible to breach in,And about path , Path isn't Good inside building or in open fields with not high ground, if up-against a gibi, he will have quite a hard time to take him down. That being said path was quite useful in Worlds edge as there were so many buildings and high places! So everything comes down to Positioning upper hand, But Path Nerf seems punishing, it seems that the dev's do not want high mobility plays which were very enjoyable in Titanfall , now Playing path seems punishing, Meta legends are being nerfed due to people complaining,where there is a question of skills too, a Level 500 Pathfinder won't play the same as a regular player, there are people who play this game 8 hours a day, which puts them in a very different level. They have earned this movement and game skill, the game dev's didn't hand these, all they do is push out broken updates, season 5 isn't fun at all after putting so many hours, season 5 seems punishing and broken, with Broken hit boxes.
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Re: Legend (im)balance - General look

It's not just about Pathfinder for me, really. But all the other legends. The amount of versatility that is put in some is astonishing. Others in comparison then suffer from just that. Which is why I personally said either keep everyone versatile, or everyone specialized. Having a mix of both will quite frankly only cause the versatile ones to be picked over those that are specialized.

 

Furthermore, the same counts for weapons, too. Although to a different extend.

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Re: Legend (im)balance - General look

[ Edited ]
★★ Guide

The problem is in the design of the game.

They took Titanfalls tacticals/equippable items and attributed them as skills to set legends in Apex.

Some of them were always much stronger than others.

 

The result is, some legends were much better than others from the getgo and Respawn failed to balance the passives and ultimates properly to compensate for the imbalances of power of the tactical abilities.

 

Now the solution would be to buff the passives and ultimates for each legend that has a weaker tactical ability, or completely rework them.

I dont think the solution is to nerf the tactical abilities into oblivion.

 

Yes, voidwalking is very strong, but 35 is an absurdly long cooldown.

Yes, grappling is a sick mobile skill, but it is also fun as * and 35 is just an absurdly long cooldown.

 

But the problem is also Respawns approach to balancing post-release.

After collecting plenty of data throughout s0 and maybe even s1, they could have started gradually balancing throughout seasons, buffing, nerfing legends. Increase/decrease cooldowns here and there, that sort of stuff. Instead they only did it once each season, not to a great extent or following any logic at all (ie bloodhound having like 1% pickrate for 3-4 seasons until he started getting MINOR buffs) and they took a very... sledgehammer sort of approach (ie recent pathfinder nerf) to the few things they did change. It just seems wrong.

 

I guess they dont balance stuff midseason to make the season itself feel consistent or something, but it really just seems lazy.

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