March 2019
@Kuro466 I don`t think anyone is coming up with these scenarios just for the fun of it. These things take place and I personally have no reason to lie about it or make it up.
I am not complaining about aiming or not being able to win enough in this game, I am actually content with my skills (over 20 years of gaming as well so not a newbie) and I constantly manage to win even with random teammates. I just think this "time to kill" is a bit ridiculous. It takes too much to kill one enemy, which in my opinion takes away from all the tactics that you can deploy on the battlefield instead of adding to it. Or maybe I am used with the shooters of old where a headshot or 2 at most were a sure kill as it should be, not to mention a shotgun blast or a grenade. This probably is better for casuals, it makes them more engaged seeing they don`t die so fast. I don`t know. What I know is that I enjoy the game nevertheless but this just brings it down a lot in my opinion. A small tweak at least wouldn`t hurt I think, and to be honest after the introduction of the Season 1 pass it seems it is harder to find better armor. So we`ll see how that goes.
@TrueDivinorium The medic was just jumping, he didn`t even turned to me, he was fighting with my teammate. I got all the pellets since he was really close to me and not moving much. But that`s not the point. He should`ve been knocked down just by the blast of the grenade, I mean it is a grenade after all and he was literally on top of it. That`s just my opinion, maybe I like it to be more realistic and this clearly isn`t meant to be that which means I am just a rambling old man
March 2019 - last edited March 2019
The netcode atm is just bad, in the last 2/3 days i have been having many situations(maybe am noticing it more) where my shots just don't seem to land, i do review footage(sometimes i record my games for learning purposes) and i can see that my shoots are visually landing on target.
I read about people "unloading" on someone and the other player turning around and 2 tap them or whatever the truth is i silently tough naaa, not possible your just worse than you think but the same happened to me in my last game, a player was loot while standing still i ninjad up on him to make sure my shoots where on point and gave him some bullet juice but in the end he had time to leave the loot menu turn around and "blow me to smithereens".
Something is definitely not right with the game atm. Ill leave this link form a youtuber (Battle(non)sense) that does extensive netcode analyses on several games i think people need to have a look at it
https://www.reddit.com/r/apexlegends/comments/ar7yxj/apex_legends_netcode_needs_a_lot_of_work/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PfFPW9a90w
Shroud actually complain about this in multiple videos... Imagine of all people shroud so i guess there is merit to the assumption that Apex Netcode is in some manner not good enough.
P.S. the TTK is miserable (honest opinion i understand most might not agree) with fast TTK's you need to be faster, better and more precise and not the other way a round. Long TTK's are forgiving allowing for multiple mistakes in mid fight that will not be penalized by death in conjunction with healing and armor(i think the armor toughness is just right its armor that actually works) it makes for long gun fights where usually a third party gets the trophy for coming late to the part , provoking confrontation is mostly disadvantageous in this form (sit and wait ain't fun in a shooter i believe).
March 2019
As an old fart with slow reflexes I prefer having time to react to the situation before being insta gibbed. However the TTK is slightly too high, I think removing 25HP off shields would be better.
March 2019 - last edited March 2019
I'm aware of Apex netcode. And it indeed needs improvements. But like i said in this exact same thread before: People are using it as an excuse to their short comings.
I know a lot of people that play this game, in different continents, and the general idea is that yes there's a problem but it's not so bad. And for sure nowhere near the 50% loss that some people are trying to push in this same topic.
But people in this topic try to push what looks like lies and use the netcode as an excuse to lower the TTK for easier kills.
I will give the benefit of the doubt to these players and say that MAYBE it's their connection. But that's a problem with their connection, not with the game TTK. And shouldn't be used as an excuse to lower the TTK.
The grenade dude TTK wants to pass that it took an grenade of 100 of damage and 6 shots of all pellets hitting to kill a single guy, that goes over 800 of damage. So you are telling me that this game is having 75% of non registry rate?
I don't want videos of the battle nonsense. I want a video of these players playing to see how much of it is problem of their connection/netcode and how much is they thinking too much of their own aim.
Also Long TTK is more forgiving with positioning, not mid fight and for sure not in the precision. Because suddenly you can miss half of your magazine and still kill the person.
In general Long TTK makes more forgiving for positional error and less forgiving for precision/aim error.(Since if you miss the enemy has a chance to fight back)
While lower TTK makes more forgiving for precision/aim error while make positional error more punishing.(Since if someone flank you, unless the guy is utterly garbage you will die)
Also explains why most people don't know how to flank and more often than not are flanking themselves.(Seriously running in the open to "flank" someone is not flanking.)
Edits and edits. That's what i get for changing stuff and only double checking the text after i click in submit.
March 2019
@bustyomouth wrote:It would be nice to see some change to the ttk there's no reason I should unload a whole SMG clip in to someone's head and upper body just to get killed by them with a pistol. I feel it's a little longer than bf5's ttk. I didn't play titian fall all that much so I can't make to comparison between this game and that one but just some slight tweaks would be appreciated.
I disagree its what makes this game different them most other assault rifle games I've played. Its great. Reminds me of the original arena shooters.
March 2019 - last edited March 2019
In the end, it just adds up to a terrible experience of the weapons, which could be so much better. TtK is probably the foremost thing wrong with Apex aside from that there isn't anything but squad mode yet (oh and that the store is worthless along with the battle pass). The game gets a whole ton right, so its certainly worth playing. And if you don't mind aiming a garden hose at someone for a half hour before they die, you still can play strategically, still have challenges and so on.
Ultimatley, I think there's a desire for people to play a more serious looking Battle Royale, because Fortnite gameplay is better, but I don't really feel like running around with a cartoon. I'd rather see a great sci-fi lore world like Apex/Titanfall. It's just that the door is open for another sci-fi shooter to kick Apex off it's top if the gameplay is superior, which isn't going to be super hard. Well, depending on developers, there's always somebody ready to screw something up at any major game company.
Until then, Apex wins, with its nerf bullets.
March 2019 - last edited March 2019
We can all agree the netcode is terrible.. the average latency needs to improve, the worst-case allowed client side hit registration needs to be shortened... and who knows what else.
I think it's very important to understand that opinions about TTK are merely preferences, and just because one person likes something does not mean that's what other people want, or what will make the game the most successful (aka, the most revenue).
I'm interested in bringing some actual data to this discussion, so if you are so inclined, please fill out this survey...
APEX Legends TTK (time to kill) Survey
You can see results after you vote.
March 2019 - last edited March 2019
@TrueDivinorium
Don’t get this the wrong way but you are more concerned about a set of players (sharing their perceived experiences) in a forum instead of giving attention to what is the fundamental issue here the net code is flawed (that’s been proven regardless of your not caring for undeniable proof), and the TTk is not ok.
In total honesty I read a couple of examples /situations that occurred with other players and none of them were in here (This forum or thread).
You said that it’s the players problem for bad connection( I have a pretty solid one and I am noticing the same problems as others) , the game is not very good at assigning the closest or best server for you and that in itself may be part of the issue at hand.
Lag maybe also be an issue atm players cant really choose what server hosts them(unless they do that thing where you wait in the main screen etc.) As such the crappy connection allegation (in my book ) falls under the same category as “git good” it’s a non-argument until proven otherwise.
I am not going argue what is best in terms of TTK , I will say this and again its my perception on this matter , requiring a full clip to kill someone(sometimes more) this is nonsense this retracts from the shooter experience also, I thought this was a shooter first looter second hence he who shoots better and first (and by first I also mean a player who is starting the fight assuming he/she lands his/her shots) deserves to be rewarded for the bravery and skill used in approaching and defeating the enemy.
On a side note I truly believe that shorter TTK’S require better players, missing a shot penalizes the player especially if we are talking about player on the same level of skill, am not saying insta-kill style but shorter a lot shorter than they are now..
I don’t believe TTK set to faster than what they are now will not retract that much from tactical and strategic movement and advancement again I may be wrong on this, but I say this because of the high level of mobility and support(armor healing, skills) involved in the game.
Many people do not see the consequences of flawed net code or do they notice lag (such as hits not register on the server due the natural speed of the game) a lot is happening during a firefight as you know and if you are not looking for these specific things, they will only be noticeable if they are absurd in expression.
P.S. maybe solving/polishing the netcode may show me that I am wrong and TTK is good this way, but like I said having to shoot an enemy more than 16 times to get a kill (which is not a kill per say, the player can be revived) is just too much there is no reward in shooting part of the game unless you are 1 of the 2 remaining squads then. Speed up the TTK and the gun play will feel crisper and more natural more real if can say that
March 2019 - last edited March 2019
@Kuro466
I don't need to vote (but i will) to be able to guess the about 80% like the TTK as is(there aren't millions of whinny children on this subject in the forums that is how i can guess) and that is obvious since TTK as is allow for you to miss a bunch a shot hide recover health/shields and try again .... really?! The premise of this question is misleading, not the question itself but the answer since you do not ask the WHY as to why people belive TTK should be X, for the answer to have validity there should be a foundation on why people answered whatever they answered
March 2019 - last edited March 2019
1 - Solving the netcode issue is the solution for what? This thread is called "Ttk changes apex legends".
Netcode needs to be improved.
But people are asking for changes in the TTK using examples that smell like poor player skill and putting the blame in the netcode. That's my problem with the way the conversation and your argument is going.
I will say again: a dude said he is SURE that the grenade hit for 100 damage and all the pellets of the shotgun hit, 6 times. I'm asking how much damage he saw, because that smells like * or player trying to snipe with a shotgun/ potato aiming 5 shots in a roll and putting the blame in the TTK.
"shorter TTK requires better players"
That's utter *. because as i said before It changes where the focus of the skill are.
Lower TTK makes easier to kill people, requiring less aim but making positioning more relevant. Since you need to land less shot to kill and the player has less time to react.
Higher TTK shift the focus to Aim over positioning, since now you needs to hit more bullets to kill the player and getting them with the pants down now needs more bullets hitting to kill the guy.
The problem that people don't see is that the lower ttk the more people will camp. Because if the average joe can reliably kill you simply because he saw you first now every time you move you may give your position and die without a chance to fight back.
That might be OK in a game like BF or CoD where people instantly respawn; hell if you google my name in Planetside 2 forums you will se me arguing for a lower TTk in that game.
But this is a BR. And having your 10 minutes of play, loot and gear end without a chance to fight back just because random3 saw you from his house isn't ok. And to avoid that people will naturally play more passively, and you read it right: passively not "strategically", making the extreme of this behavior, camping, WAY more common.
That's why i personally couldn't play PUBG also why it's known as "running simulator". Because of how often you run around for 10 minutes and dies in 2 secs without a chance to fight back; just because rando3 was looking at your direction when you moved.
If you ask me the higher TTK is what sets apex apart from the other games, IMO is what makes the netcode and utter lack of matchmaking tolerable. And why i'm so adamant and calling the * of some players out. We don't need another running simulator in the market.
PS: And i'm calling * in most of what people say because IT'S *. People are trying to push stupidly high amounts of bullets to kill someone and putting the blame in the hit code. When the actual fact is: The game has a higher TTK. But a epic armored dude WILL go down with a epic clip worth of lead. If they are not going down the problem is you, not the netcode.
And i'm straight up saying the problem IS you because it actually is. Just look at the post of people trying to lower the TTK. Using examples like BF, the average Accuracy of BF players are stupidly low. But they kill people because you need 5 bullets to kill someone and have a mag of 20+
So missing 75% of the shots there still net a kill before a reload.
In this game where you NEED to more than half the mag to connect to kill before reloading your * aim aren't gonna fly.
Yet that's true for both sides since the enemy has the same TTK on you; but more often than not players that were a "big shot" in other games come to a higher TTK game and get face to face with the truth that they are not as good as they think they are. And here we are. Some "pros" asking for easier kills.
Quite frankly this survey is.... lacking.
Most questions don't have good answer/is more complex than what is there so i will answer here.
1 - TTK is good.
2 - The problem isn't the TTK with these weapons but how they warp the game.
Wingman: It's not the TTK, it's the fact that you have a weapon with a stupidly high damage per shot, a stupidly high damage per magazine, with a stupidly high headshot modifier, that can be used to reliably snipe AND is a pistol.(So it gets the move speed bonus)
So you have a weapon that is all around good and require low precision to use. Also lets not forget how little armor it consume, 1 stack for Spitfire/R-99/R-301/havok/devotion/prowler? You are in deep * next fight. For wingman is all you need and with a lot to spare.
That weapon is straight up * design and i cannot see a world where it will not warp the game around itself. I would redesign the weapon completely but a good TRUE nerf would be removing the mag extender from it, making people actually care about hitting the shots.
Peace Keeper: The problem is not the damage it does, it's how it warps the game around it when used and how little chance to fight back it gives. There's no problem with a shotgun being good. the problem is how little time it gives to you to fight back. And i'm not talking about time between shots. I'm talking about times between reloads. It should have 2 at MOST 3 bullets per magazine. It's ok to have a strong spammy weapon for close range, it's not ok to it be as forgiving as the PK is.
There's a reason why CQC fights with the PK involved turn into a jump party. Because you are more focused in dodging the bullets instead of actually hitting yours; what's fine, the real problem is how long you have to keep dodging the bullets until you have a real window to punish the PK user.
3
The TTK is OK, there's no problem of having a weapon with a WAY shorter TTK, the problem is how forgiving the PK is. Weapons like the R99 has a TTK as low as the PK but you cannot simply jump around and hope to hit 2/6 shots to kill someone. If you do you will likely run out of ammo sooner than later.
4
Hardcore.
5
10+ years(albeit with HUGE hiatus in it)
6
2000+
7
Average player of the actual public or the average player of the "entire" public?
The player that actually play apex have 100~500 hours.
But it's a free game, we have a lot of people that log once every week see what's up and them go play something else. Like for real i have a 10 year old cousin that play apex for like 30 minutes every week and play batman lego for 4 hours/day. Should we include in as a "player" or better "target audience"? Because if we do the average is way lower.
8
No, at least not until they improve the netcode. If anything maybe they will have to increase it. Because on paper the Netcode is really bad but playing the game feels super nice, maybe with a good netcode we will discover the TTK is too low.
9
No. I don't think respawn will be able to manage this game and keep it being as relevant as it's today.(Surprisingly)
We have a team that used the card "slow incremental changes because we are careful in what we do" yet launched the game with * hitboxes; seriously i doubt that not a single play-tester noticed something was up with these characters.
They launched a game about hitting targets where one target is almost 3x as big as the other; In fact i can even see the the devs bringing the issue in a reunion and the lead dev/shot callare, that probably don't even play FPS games, saying "nah it's fine. No one will notice, we have more urgent matters."