March 2019
@RichAC wrote:
But thats my whole point, even the pro players don't believe it should be about going for the win. So there is nothing separating them from the amateur or streamer playstyle besides good aim and tactics. Strategy is meaningless. And society won't respect a game thats not about winning. I don't blame that on the BR game mode. I blame that on players not wanting to change and play it like its a BR. It feels like overwatch players wanting to play this like its a FFA. My reply to them is don't play a BR game then because that feels fake to me.
This is the core of my point as well. These "tournaments" we had for Apex Legends on twitch were complete abominations. Contest on who stomps the most noobs the fastest, even with purposefully leaving people alive so that they could farm more kills after they respawn their teammates. I struggle to understand how anyone finds watching this enjoyable. But it's clear that it's exactly the kind of thing that current state of BR community leads to. It's also not like these tournaments are the first of their kinds, I saw similar events for CoD Blackout before.
Where my position differs is that I believe devs could have done a way better job at what the goal of the game is meant to be so that people wouldn't play with such incompatible playstyles.
March 2019
@2deski wrote:
@RichAC wrote:
@2deski wrote:
@RichAC wrote:
We should have separate modes. those who want a skill rated match maker mode with ranked stats recorded. And a mode for those who don't give a crap about nothing.PUBG basically has a competitive mode through Faceit. It does not fix the OP's problem at all as it does not prevent high level players from stomping low-level ones whenever they feel like it. Skill-based matchmaking should not be optional.
It actually does. A low level player would never be matched with someone like DrDisrespect in PUBG. Sorry but you are absolutely wrong. It might not be the best matchmaker but its better then nothing.
Ahm, how is that? If you aren't aware, DrDisrespect does not play Faceit. Nor does Shroud. Streamers like them will simply ignore the competitive mode since their viewers prefer to see them stomp the noobs in pubs. Competitive mode would only help competitive players that actually want to play competitively, not the more casual ones like OP.
Thats fine by me. But give the option. They can go noob stomping for their fans. I want to play competitive matches at my skill level.
March 2019 - last edited March 2019
@2deski wrote:
@RichAC wrote:
@Karsot wrote:This is a game not a sport. All BR games are competitive and do not have divisions.
PUBG has a rating system that is not skill based MM either. Just approximation to the rating of the current squad leader. In other words, a noob can be appointed leader of a squad and you will be fighting against noobs even if you are Shroud.
Moving on now. If you die in 2 seconds then you are obviously doing something wrong. Check were you land, learn to hear what is going on around you and learn the areas that offer better quality loot as well as flank areas. On top of that maybe learn how shoot in the practice range ,since we have one and you can practice at different ranges will all weapons, with both static and moving targets. People that have been playing FPS games and BR games longer than you will beat you up always, until you get on their level.
People that have better degrees than you get a better paying job than you and drive a more expensive car than you. This is how everything in life works. Get better and you can beat them.
Also let's assume that they indeed implement that. The top palyers will have to wait for a very long time to get into a match. The low skill players will also have to wait a long time and the only players that will be able to find matches fast are the mediocre players. Why? Because bell curve and math.
On top of that what about trolls and throwers? Let's assume we found a solution for all of the above problems. This is a team game if we put together players we expect them to work together. Now if your team is bad it was 0 effect on you. You just queue up for next game and hope to do better. If you get trolls thought and we implement your moronic suggestions and you lose you will lose rating. Eventually you might drop division or even get trapped at the lowest ranks where people will 100% troll.
Now do you get why this is not going to be implemented in a BR game?
LMAO, I didn't read past the first lines. first of all, Their FAQ says https://pubg.gamepedia.com/Frequently_Asked_Questions_(FAQ) the method they use is an ELO, not a rating based on any stats. And the exact method they use is secret "alot of is behind closed doors".
So what research have you done bud? Because only people that work for the company know exactly how they match players. Now I have never played PUBG. But I do know people that have that have told me after they implemented their form of MMR< they were never grouped with people on the lvl of DrDisrespect as an avg or below avg player again. The matches got more competitive in their opinion.
Also the game has a solo queue to even better rank players. Furthermore, after many games played a players ELO averages out. Not only that, Even if it is based on squad leader as you say it is, then so what? That squad leader is put in a squad of people, and a server with similar MMR.
So again, TLDR...That FAQ is outdated. First, every one of six modes had their own separate ELOs (solo, duo, squad in TPP and FPP), as they should. Having a solo mode does not help, it's the opposite. All regions also had separate ELOs as well. Maps however, did not have separate ELOs, even though they totally should have as map knowledge is an extremely big part of player skill in PUBG.
In my experience, MMR only made a noticeable difference in the early days when there were a lot of new players. Back then I would get a pretty wild easy mode any time a season restarts and ELOs are reset. But, during 2018 MMR effects seem to have practically disappeared. I don't know how much it had to do with the dwindling player numbers and how much with algorithm changes and removal of region selection. But I'd bet at least part of the answer is that MMR was only ever useful at separating those super new players from the rest. As playerbase matured that MMR became useless. So now they actually removed ELO-based leaderboards and replaced them with completely irrelevant rankings based purely on how much people play (just like all these trackers in Apex for level, kills, headshots, etc).
For example, back in the ELO days, I have been ranked in top 1k in EU FPP solos from time to time. Since that rating is all about placement (as you can read in FAQ it has nothing to do with kills), and this was also before Faceit MM or custom games existed, you would expect me to be matched with all serious players that don't hot drop, players that play like competitive matches are played, right? Well, wrong, no matter what ELO I had half the server consistently died in the first minute in hot drops. And it was exactly the same for even the top 10 players. It did not work. Apparently with 100 player lobbies and 35 minute games it is almost impossible to match top players together with any reasonable queue times. Again, huge part of the problem is that most players simply don't play the game competitively. Even though PUBG did add a ranking system to encourage that, streamers sentiment (basically complaining about people not being suicidal) won.
At the same time, with placement based MMR, hot dropping is abusing the system. You ever heard people that hot drop tell you that they either die quickly or have a great game. That's how it works with placement-based MMR. When I decided to do hot drops for a while I noticed just how ridiculously fast your rating drops when you do that. And it's not surprising. From the game's point of view, you are an absolute idiot. There is an 8x8 kilometer map and yet you consistently manage to die in the first minute. So when you finally make it out alive your rating dropped so much that the average level of other players is suddenly lower.
It doesn't matter if some people you know have told you that DrDisrespect is not matched with low-level players. Placement based MMR is absolutely irrelevant in regards to how these streamers play most of the time. In their case all that matters is kill rating. They would need a separate mode with a separate kill-based ELO system. Except I doubt they'd play it if it existed. In a perfectly working kill-based matchmaking everyone's average kills per game should be at around 0.5, half a kill per game. I don't think Doc is actually that high level, yet he still got 10+ kill games regularly. A 10 kill game against equally capable opponents should only happen once in 1024 games on average. Shroud was regularly able to score 20-kill games (20 kill games would only happen once in about 1,048,576 games, yes a million games, so a presence of a 20-kill badge in Apex kinda hints at how much Respawn care about this kind of matchmaking). And even he is far from the worst example (worth noting that a lot of his kills are often unarmed stream snipers). Whenever I see some actually competitive pro PUBG players like Ubah or Fuzzface playing pubs, it's just ridiculous how often they happen to be at 20 kills with no stream snipers, even solo vs squads. The difference in combat skills of players matched together in PUBG is absolutely tremendous. Just as it is in Apex. Mendo's 36 kill record would have taken about 7 billion tries if he was matched with equal opponents. PUBG record is even higher, at 43.
TLDR. stopped reading at "the faq is outdated". Give me a link or something instead of your hearsay.
March 2019
@2deski wrote:
@RichAC wrote:Also it seems PUBG did a real lazy mmr, and even that was helpful. I think respawn could do an even better job then pubg did because their matchmaker in titanfall 2 is exceptional. They could take all stats into account. But of course this would cost money and hiring the right people to be done right. Too bad gaim theory went out of business cause noone ever takes this stuff serious enough.
But anything is better then nothing.Titanfall, just like any other game with a pure focus on combat, does not have Battle Royale's duality problem. In a game that is purely about fighting it is very simple to match people by their fragging performance.
Fragging performance should definitely be counted. I would also say so does damage done and other stats. but why couldn't they also rank by wins? You find that overly complicated? I don't see why...
March 2019 - last edited March 2019
@2deski wrote:
@RichAC wrote:But thats my whole point, even the pro players don't believe it should be about going for the win. So there is nothing separating them from the amateur or streamer playstyle besides good aim and tactics. Strategy is meaningless. And society won't respect a game thats not about winning. I don't blame that on the BR game mode. I blame that on players not wanting to change and play it like its a BR. It feels like overwatch players wanting to play this like its a FFA. My reply to them is don't play a BR game then because that feels fake to me.
This is the core of my point as well. These "tournaments" we had for Apex Legends on twitch were complete abominations. Contest on who stomps the most noobs the fastest, even with purposefully leaving people alive so that they could farm more kills after they respawn their teammates. I struggle to understand how anyone finds watching this enjoyable. But it's clear that it's exactly the kind of thing that current state of BR community leads to. It's also not like these tournaments are the first of their kinds, I saw similar events for CoD Blackout before.
Where my position differs is that I believe devs could have done a way better job at what the goal of the game is meant to be so that people wouldn't play with such incompatible playstyles.
Thats probably why LoL is the most popular game on pc by far. Especially in North America. RIOT are the ones who have sole control of tournaments, and they really encourage fair play and competitive matches in the core game and at all skill levels.
These other games have numerous tournaments and hosts and formats and rules. SO no wonder these pro gamers feel entitled to change the format of the game. Alot of it feels really shady at times. I'm waiting for another developer to realize there is money in leagues and cashing in so its less corruptible.
Relying on the community is archaic just like dedicated servers are now. To much room for abuse.
March 2019 - last edited March 2019
@RichAC wrote:
TLDR. stopped reading at "the faq is outdated". Give me a link or something instead of your hearsay.
If you can't be bothered to read, you shouldn't bother to write. If you don't believe my claims you had only to look at the very FAQ you linked. Right in the same Ranking section you quoted they refer to Sanhok as "just recently" released. Sanhok released in June 2018. They also tell you "all 3 maps have MMR". PUBG has had 4 maps for quite a while now.
You can't use a game you never played in your arguments and then just dismiss what someone who played it for years says as hearsay. Especially after you literally just used "I do know people that have told me" as an argument, which is literally the definition of hearsay. If you can't even bother to read other people's words without some kind of forensic evidence upfront there's no point in having a conversation with you.
March 2019
Agreed, as a casual player myself who maybe plays a couple hours a day with a friend (or two if I'm lucky) it blows getting into a game and always getting killed by some max lvl player with freaking 4000 kills and 456 victories. And if this was just occasionally I wouldn't mind. But in reality this is every. damn. game. and it really does take the fun out of it when I know that my chances of victory are so slim I might as well not even bother trying.
March 2019 - last edited March 2019
@2deski wrote:
@RichAC wrote:TLDR. stopped reading at "the faq is outdated". Give me a link or something instead of your hearsay.
If you can't be bothered to read, you shouldn't bother to write. If you don't believe my claims you had only to look at the very FAQ you linked. Right in the same Ranking section you quoted they refer to Sanhok as "just recently" released. Sanhok released in June 2018. They also tell you "all 3 maps have MMR". PUBG has had 4 maps for quite a while now.
You can't use a game you never played in your arguments and then just dismiss what someone who played it for years says as hearsay. Especially after you literally just used "I do know people that have told me" as an argument, which is literally the definition of hearsay. If you can't even bother to read other people's words without some kind of forensic evidence upfront there's no point in having a conversation with you.
First you tell me the faq is outdated and now you tell me I should read it? lol Shankhok is just a map. Glad you admit though its not outdated now.
The faq says the mmr is not based on stats like kills. they probably fear stat padders, or don't think it equates to a win, or they take more stats into consideration. I think respawn can do a good job. All I know is they did a good job with the matchmaker as it is now in titanfall 2. And the MMR in pubg helped.
https://pubg.gamepedia.com/Frequently_Asked_Questions_(FAQ)#Ranking
You can learn alot about things you never experienced personally. Because I actually DO read, unlike you. And unless you work on the game yourself, The above faq is all we can read and know about it. I can't take your word for anything because you probably read alot of fake news from unofficial sources.
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/130983922?t=01h13m49s
If you have a more updated Dev stream where they talk about their new ranking system. Please enlighten us all. But otherwise. WHo are you? I'm sure if thats the case its improved since then and still behind closed doors.
March 2019
@RichAC wrote:You can learn alot about things you never experienced personally. Because I actually DO read, unlike you.
Yes, as we can all see just from this topic alone:
@RichAC wrote:
LMAO, I didn't read past the first lines. first of all, Their FAQ says...
...
TLDR. stopped reading at "the faq is outdated".
...
First you tell me the faq is outdated and now you tell me I should read it?
... even when you quote a document about a game you never played to use as part of your argument, you still don't bother to read it. It's actually hilarious how you only read someone's first line, then quote a doc of which you also only read one line as a supposed proof that you are right. I find it quite challenging to imagine a more lazy and condescending way to argue.
And of course by learning a lot you mean this nonsense:
@RichAC wrote:But I do know people that have that have told me after they implemented their form of MMR< they were never grouped with people on the lvl of DrDisrespect as an avg or below avg player again
As if when Doc did his 10+ kill games multiple times a day he did that against players anywhere close to his level.
@RichAC wrote:
lol Shankhok is just a map. Glad you admit though its not outdated now.
It's spelled Sanhok. And yeah no sh|t it's a map. Released in June 2018, not "just recently" as your holy book says. You clearly need to read what I wrote a few more (dozen) times.
@RichAC wrote:And unless you work on the game yourself, The above faq is all we can read and know about it. I can't take your word for anything because you probably read alot of fake news from unofficial sources.
Oh, is that so now? Then why on earth did you ever bring that FAQ up? Because that FAQ, just as the 2 year old AMA that it quotes, does not claim that that system was ever effective. You do that based solely on some people you know allegedly telling you that they don't get matched with DrDisrespect. That's your whole argument, emptier than the new battle pass.
Second, your statement is frankly beyond nonsense. The only things we can know are what official sources say? Because making our own observations about actual reality is what, heresy? I guess everyone who says that PUBG has 4 maps is a liar because the holy Gamepedia FAQ clearly says there are only 3 maps in PUBG. The fourth map is a hoax just like all those fake space photos created to make us believe that the Earth is round.
Your posts get only more nuts the more you go at it. For your own sake I'll assume you're drunk senseless and won't participate in your self-humiliation any longer.
March 2019
I'm on the fence about it. Ranked matchmaking is great for match quality and challenge, but at the same time, I enjoy seeing people of different skill levels. Yes it's frustrating to get wrecked by some 8574 kills TTV player, but it's also very satisfying to solo a squad of players who are a bit below you in skill. The latter reminds you of your own improvement.
The argument that new players can't improve in this environment is false. I was as new as anyone, I had never played a BR and not played an FPS in about 15 years, yet I've improved a lot.