June 2019 - last edited June 2019
As I'm sure you've read/heard, a number of streamers and competitive minded players are upset with the patch and leaving the game. The big changes that led to this? (the top 4 look to be the main ones, but it's a cumulative sum of these issues)
The top 3. The problem with bhop healing is that not everyone knew about it AND that matchmaking isn't skill-based, so casuals are punished even more so for not knowing about it and using it. The same goes for shooting while sliding. These mechanics could have been embraced with an advanced training tutorial on them, and bhop healing could have also been made even easier to do. We know that you didn't intend for it to be in the game, but many game mechanics aren't intended and end up ADDING to the game. Comboing in Street Fighter 2, many mechanics in Super Smash Bros Melee, bhop strafing in Quake, etc.. For SF2 and Quake, Developers embraced those unintended game mechanics because they added to the game. Nintendo didn't embrace SSBM's unintended mechanics, and their games following SSBM haven't ever had the following that SSBM garnered, with SSBM still having huge tourneys even so many years later.while their games following SSBM don't. Same could be said for these skill based mechanics in Apex. With an advanced training tutorial and skill-based matchmaking, these mechanics give players something to work towards while also not having to worry about getting destroyed by those who have already mastered these mechanics. It gives a huge feeling of satisfaction when you start to master these mechanics, and most of all, they're just damn fun to do. Isn't that what a game is about? We get it isn't fun when people get destroyed by their use, but hence why skill-based matchmaking would be helpful.
Elite Queue Implementation__The Slowing Down of Apex Legends: The above changes in combination with the way Elite Queue was introduced overall contribute to slowing down the game and making it campier. This moves the game away from the fast paced movement based BR game so many of us love, and more towards a slower paced campier game like PUBG. This should not be your aim! Fast paced action is what makes Apex stand out in the crowd of BR games! The idea of doing an Elite Queue to add competitiveness is good, and can also be used as a pseudo method for skill-based matchmaking (also good), but it needs to be done in a way that doesn't compromise the integrity of the core fast paced action we love about the game... doesn't move the game towards PUBG. There's been an emphasis on prestige with high dmg/kills since launch with the badges you have (4k dmg badge, 20 kill badge, etc.), so perhaps incentivizing Elite Queues with both placement & squad kills/dmg? Something akin to that maybe?
Overall, it's a combination of these changes that have streamers/competitive players upset, but mostly the move away from competitive skill and fast paced action. And you should want competitiveness in your games, because it helps create a large following and player base.
Thank you for reading.
June 2019
June 2019 - last edited June 2019 by EA_Blueberry
[Removed - CM] what we think, i am done with that game... they are doing mistaked others have done befor, so i do question the IQ from does guys at RESPAWN (sry but who does lower his competitive skill base) blizzard once did now 2019 they are going back to the hard-core stuff.. guess why!! because they didnt menage to keep that 98% of casuals happy they come and go but does 2% (streamers and and) are who inspire new people.. if u lower the skill cap and a guy like dizzy or shroud cant go all crazy and do all that nice moves even worst u make them quit ur game who the hell will even play it at the end?
like a did say again a low IQ patch, i aint even sure that does are still the same guys working there who made the game at the first place
June 2019
June 2019 - last edited June 2019 by EA_Blueberry
hey ea this is the best feedback/suggestion you can get
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/435379433 watch 02:04:30 this guy knows what hes talking about
EA_Blueberry: Removed ALL CAPS
June 2019 - last edited June 2019 by EA_Blueberry
@adidasPowah wrote:
hey ea this is the best feedback/suggestion you can get
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/435379433 watch 02:04:30 this guy knows what hes talking about
He has really good points, but we cannot blame people who camp. Every game should be completely free in regards to the choices players make and how they want to play. Artificially restricting something is a FORCED gameplay and this is not a good thing. If you do not like campers do something about it - hunt them down or change something in your gameplay. I do not mind them at all, because if you are a good player you can adapt to many different types of situations. Remember - this is Battle Rolyale Game - it was made to be that way.
June 2019 - last edited June 2019
He actually starts the "vlog to respawn" at about 02:02:40. I was there for that stream, and I sympathize with Mendo and agree with him on most of the points he makes and where he thinks the game should go (probably most everything we agree on, except maybe Arc Star change he suggests, unless he means they should only slow movement and not also turning, in which case I agree).
I made the post I did because I wanted to try and get the developers to understand why they need to focus on what made this game so popular in the first place. Mendo gives some reasoning, but I was hoping to do that even more so. Perhaps my post doesn't explain that enough, but I welcome conversation starting with the devs on why they think they should have the game continue the direction it's going (less mechanical skill and slower paced action).
@joeybagofdonutsxI agree Elite queue needs to be done differently, but I like Mendo's suggestion of a combination of dmg/kills & placement. How that should be calculated I'm not exactly sure, but it can't be just placements or we get the meta we currently have, which is not what the major playerbase of Apex likes (we want action!). Additionally I don't think it should be just dmg/kills. But the idea of an Elite queue, and starting to bring in some competitive format things and a competitive queue, are great additions like Mendo says.
@D3loFFSure you don't blame the campers, you blame the meta that was generated, and that's why Elite queue should change. It may be a BR game, but what made it popular from the start was that it's so different and more fast-paced and action-focused than many of the other BR games out there. The devs should focus on returning to that.
Also the "just adapt" argument is so silly. Yeah we can all adapt and just camp and avoid fights to play the meta. That's not the point. Our argument is that that's a bad direction/meta for the game, it isn't as much fun. I really do feel the majority of us have come to love Apex for it's fast-paced action while still having BR elements, and Elite queue done in this way moves away from that.
Also why are you arguing against Mendo on this @D3loFF ? His point was that both dmg/kills & placements should all be used for determining points for Elite queue, so that players are free to play and try to win in a multitude of avenues, just as you say.
Edit: Still hoping to hear the thoughts of @EA_Blueberry on this, or if he could at least pass the feedback on.
June 2019
@Fakooking wrote:
Yeah we can all adapt and just camp and avoid fights to play the meta. That's not the point. Our argument is that that's a bad direction/meta for the game, it isn't as much fun. I really do feel the majority of us have come to love Apex for it's fast-paced action while still having BR elements, and Elite queue done in this way moves away from that.
Edit: Still hoping to hear the thoughts of @EA_Blueberry on this, or if he could at least pass the feedback on.
We do not have anything specific to share around bhop heals at the moment from what was mentioned in the patch notes.
The Community Managers here pass on feedback to the development team and with the release of the Elite queue we're excited to see how the community both thinks about the challenges associated with it and how it alters gameplay. It's very interesting to see how it's changing the battles in Kings Canyon.
"Fun" is subjective and how we get to "fun" can be biased. Our goal is to make it fun for everyone. Playing more passively all game can be considered boring to some players, but doing that to achieve "Champion" can be looked at as the most rewarding fun experience of all. The team is striving to make a really good balance for players of all types of gameplay styles.
Keep in mind we have less than a week's worth of gameplay under the books and it runs for almost a month, so we'll have to consume some more data and feedback before reaching any sort of conclusion around the Elite Queue.
We've seen some positive feedback on how players are enjoying the new challenges for rewards. It's interesting to see how rewards can affect behavior. In a discussion like this one, there were thoughts on how when you were maxed out in rank or became Champion the rewards could be better. Do you think that leads to less aggressive play?
Appreciate the feedback!