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feedback on mass effect andromeda
by jc3dwebOriginal Post
There's no direct way to contact BioWare, but they said they read everything they find online. If you start a new thread on this forum, there's a good chance they'll read it.
[I hope external links are allowed here?]
There is also an unofficial Bioware Forum over at: http://bsn.boards.net/board/5/mass-effect-andromeda-general-discussion
Some of the team from Bioware have been seen posting references to the forum in the past, so they are keeping an eye on those Forums too.
Plus it's a good place to talk about Bioware, as a developer, and their games, in general. Come say hi 
Thanks all for your responses! I appreciate it.
I've decided it'll be simplest to stick my feedback in here. The other site linked looked like the kind of place that could get flamey quickly.
If someone with mod powers would be so kind, this could do with a spoiler block, just in case.
So, if a Bioware person is looking, here is my feedback. Sorry it took me so long. I know it likely won't be terribly useful in light of recent announcements, but I hope it might at least offer some insight that corroborates with that of others in a meaningful way moving forward.
ME:A feedback - please note the stuff below might be slightly spoilery, and represents my personal opinions, and are not an invitation to say mean things to me if you disagree.
-----------------
I will start by saying that I love the overall gameplay and story of Mass Effect: Andromeda. I had a lot of fun playing it.
However, my primary criticism, personally, is that it didn't stand up to Bioware's claims of diversity & inclusion as well as I'd hoped/expected, or as well as some made out in promo material. Most notably for me, it did not offer those wanting to play a gay male Ryder the same number and depth of romances as other orientations. Making Jaal a male romance option was a step in the right direction, and I'm grateful for that, but not far enough. As someone who strongly prefers to play a gay man, I felt very much like my romances were an afterthought. Even what was available felt like it had less attention and development. The cutscenes with Cora in particular show the difference. It's lavishly detailed and well-animated, whereas the gay male cutscenes look like they had less effort, like the body models don't fit together quite right. The Cora sex scene was the most explicit, whereas the gay guys get a cutaway at best. I don't absolutely need sex in my games, but if it's going to be in there, then I would rather it be more egalitarian.
I also felt that the Reyes Vidal romance was only half-done. After a certain point, he becomes just another minor NPC, and it's like the romance just stops once you complete the Kadara main mission. I feel that, if Liara could be the Shadow Broker from aboard the Normandy, Reyes should be able to rule Kadara from The Tempest. I'd really like to see more of him, especially more romance. He was one of my favourite things in MEA, seriously. Whoever created him should be proud, because of how his interactions evoked so much feeling in me.
Liam also seems like he should be romanceable by Scott. Their relationship gets very homoerotic, as does Liam's relationship with Jaal, and I was actually surprised by his reaction to expressing interest. He seemed a bit homophobic. I do love and want close male platonic friendships in games, but the cues the game/character seemed to give were very counter-intuitive at times. Even if Liam's reaction was less strong, that would at least not sour the friendship so much. Basically, I feel the game lacks a truly equal experience for players choosing a gay male Ryder.
I believe emphatically that everyone's romances should have the same level of effort and attention. This was something I felt was best in Dragon Age 2, where gender wasn't a factor in whether a character could be romanced, and all the romances were really well-written. It made things fairer.
I feel that BioWare have somewhat rested on their laurels in terms of being diverse. Being one of the better game developers in that regard doesn't mean there isn't still work to be done. The oversight in terms of gay men shows that. I'd like to see BioWare truly tackling the systematic homophobia and hetero/cisnormativity in games, by working to make their games genuinely inclusive.
On a related note, I would love to see transness handled better. Please involve more trans people in development. Let them guide you to better representation. Nothing about us without us, as they say. Every trans character I've seen Bioware do (all 2 of them) was kind of casually outed and it was made their primary feature, which was rather icky, for want of a better word. I yearn to see trans folk being awesome in games, but it needn't be a 'thing' that the player has to comment on or ask intrusive questions. Having them voiced by cis people of a different gender is also not cool (Krem in DAI). There's no shortage of trans actors, and therefore no excuse.
It seems clear that ME:A is intended for a straight Scott romancing Cora, as that's what gets the most detail and is focused on in the trailers, and I really wanted ME:A to not just be for straight cis white guys. They already get almost everything, and while I know many of them are great folks who want the same inclusivity I do, the privilege of that group and the way they react to things that don't cater to them holds Bioware back.
I really want to see games where gay men are heroic, brave, and desirable, as there's just not enough of that. We are consistently under-represented and poorly represented. BioWare has already made brave moves in this direction in the past, and it needs to continue. It's not just about feeling included in the game, but including us outside of the game too. How we teach people to treat others through the media we consume has been shown by numerous studies to profoundly impact how we treat others in real life.
I have a couple of other things that kept me from rating it 10/10, though these are secondary to my first point. Believe me, I love the ME series, despite its flaws. I want to rate MEA highly.
Sara's face was fine as it was. Sure, graphically, it could maybe be better in a functional, expressive way, but I feel that many of the complaints were about misogyny, not graphical realism. The people who complained about her 'ugly' appearance as a value judgement about the character were utterly offensive especially the ones who called her features "autistic". As a person with autism, I find it disgraceful that people equate what I am with ugliness. Those people did not deserve to be pandered to. At the very least, it should have been made an optional thing that could be switched on or off by the player. I loved that the people looked more natural, rather than looking like glamour models all the time. By all means have some people who like to look that way, but it shouldn't be made the norm. We already have enough body issues in society without games reinforcing them.
I'd have liked if the collectibles in-game had quest markers. Maybe make them optional from settings and that means people can choose the level of help they get. Everyone wins. The exploring is fun, but it can get frustrating when that last thing eludes me.
I missed the Elcor, Hanar, Volus, and Quarian races. I understood the in-game reason for their absence, but I loved how varied they made things in previous games. Especially the Elcor. They made me feel like I was properly encountering new things. Aliens that are very different are the ones I found most interesting, and it doesn't really make sense for all species in a huge galaxy to be air-breathing, for example. I hope they'll return in future.
Other than those points, I enjoyed the game very much. The Mass Effect series is very close to my heart, and Andromeda reinvigorated my enthusiasm for the world. I love the Angara especially as a new addition. I loved learning about their culture. They're different enough that they gave humanity lots to learn, and Jaal is one of my favourite characters. I adore Reyes, and hope to see more of him. I just really want to see BioWare truly live up to its reputation for being progressive, and bring gay men and trans & non-binary people more into the fold as equals. I remain a loyal fan of these games, so I hope you will understand that my criticisms come from love, from a desire to see you do awesome things.
I really hope that the Mass Effect series continues, as I was really excited about the setup Andromeda has done, and I hope that the next one will be more inclusive from the feedback received. Andromeda is a good game, in my opinion. I wish it was more inclusive of gay men and trans folk, but that's my main criticism. It shouldn't have been rushed so much either, but I know that's more an EA problem. Most of the rest is fine. I believe that, in terms of inclusivity, BioWare is capable of better. Its flaws can definitely be addressed, if given the chance. Please include queer people in the conversation, especially in development. We want to love your games and give you money, but not if we are treated like we don't matter. If there's any way I can help as an individual, I will.
Thank you for making Andromeda, and for inviting feedback. The fact that Jaal is now bi shows reassuringly that at least some of you want to make things right. The Mass Effect world is a great one, with so much potential. A sci-fi setting allows not just for literal exploration, but it's a rich environment to explore big questions and issues. Games that make me think and feel deeply are what I love best, and Mass Effect does that so well. I dearly hope to return to that world in future.
Best,
Ash
I've decided it'll be simplest to stick my feedback in here. The other site linked looked like the kind of place that could get flamey quickly.
If someone with mod powers would be so kind, this could do with a spoiler block, just in case.
So, if a Bioware person is looking, here is my feedback. Sorry it took me so long. I know it likely won't be terribly useful in light of recent announcements, but I hope it might at least offer some insight that corroborates with that of others in a meaningful way moving forward.
ME:A feedback - please note the stuff below might be slightly spoilery, and represents my personal opinions, and are not an invitation to say mean things to me if you disagree.
-----------------
I will start by saying that I love the overall gameplay and story of Mass Effect: Andromeda. I had a lot of fun playing it.
However, my primary criticism, personally, is that it didn't stand up to Bioware's claims of diversity & inclusion as well as I'd hoped/expected, or as well as some made out in promo material. Most notably for me, it did not offer those wanting to play a gay male Ryder the same number and depth of romances as other orientations. Making Jaal a male romance option was a step in the right direction, and I'm grateful for that, but not far enough. As someone who strongly prefers to play a gay man, I felt very much like my romances were an afterthought. Even what was available felt like it had less attention and development. The cutscenes with Cora in particular show the difference. It's lavishly detailed and well-animated, whereas the gay male cutscenes look like they had less effort, like the body models don't fit together quite right. The Cora sex scene was the most explicit, whereas the gay guys get a cutaway at best. I don't absolutely need sex in my games, but if it's going to be in there, then I would rather it be more egalitarian.
I also felt that the Reyes Vidal romance was only half-done. After a certain point, he becomes just another minor NPC, and it's like the romance just stops once you complete the Kadara main mission. I feel that, if Liara could be the Shadow Broker from aboard the Normandy, Reyes should be able to rule Kadara from The Tempest. I'd really like to see more of him, especially more romance. He was one of my favourite things in MEA, seriously. Whoever created him should be proud, because of how his interactions evoked so much feeling in me.
Liam also seems like he should be romanceable by Scott. Their relationship gets very homoerotic, as does Liam's relationship with Jaal, and I was actually surprised by his reaction to expressing interest. He seemed a bit homophobic. I do love and want close male platonic friendships in games, but the cues the game/character seemed to give were very counter-intuitive at times. Even if Liam's reaction was less strong, that would at least not sour the friendship so much. Basically, I feel the game lacks a truly equal experience for players choosing a gay male Ryder.
I believe emphatically that everyone's romances should have the same level of effort and attention. This was something I felt was best in Dragon Age 2, where gender wasn't a factor in whether a character could be romanced, and all the romances were really well-written. It made things fairer.
I feel that BioWare have somewhat rested on their laurels in terms of being diverse. Being one of the better game developers in that regard doesn't mean there isn't still work to be done. The oversight in terms of gay men shows that. I'd like to see BioWare truly tackling the systematic homophobia and hetero/cisnormativity in games, by working to make their games genuinely inclusive.
On a related note, I would love to see transness handled better. Please involve more trans people in development. Let them guide you to better representation. Nothing about us without us, as they say. Every trans character I've seen Bioware do (all 2 of them) was kind of casually outed and it was made their primary feature, which was rather icky, for want of a better word. I yearn to see trans folk being awesome in games, but it needn't be a 'thing' that the player has to comment on or ask intrusive questions. Having them voiced by cis people of a different gender is also not cool (Krem in DAI). There's no shortage of trans actors, and therefore no excuse.
It seems clear that ME:A is intended for a straight Scott romancing Cora, as that's what gets the most detail and is focused on in the trailers, and I really wanted ME:A to not just be for straight cis white guys. They already get almost everything, and while I know many of them are great folks who want the same inclusivity I do, the privilege of that group and the way they react to things that don't cater to them holds Bioware back.
I really want to see games where gay men are heroic, brave, and desirable, as there's just not enough of that. We are consistently under-represented and poorly represented. BioWare has already made brave moves in this direction in the past, and it needs to continue. It's not just about feeling included in the game, but including us outside of the game too. How we teach people to treat others through the media we consume has been shown by numerous studies to profoundly impact how we treat others in real life.
I have a couple of other things that kept me from rating it 10/10, though these are secondary to my first point. Believe me, I love the ME series, despite its flaws. I want to rate MEA highly.
Sara's face was fine as it was. Sure, graphically, it could maybe be better in a functional, expressive way, but I feel that many of the complaints were about misogyny, not graphical realism. The people who complained about her 'ugly' appearance as a value judgement about the character were utterly offensive especially the ones who called her features "autistic". As a person with autism, I find it disgraceful that people equate what I am with ugliness. Those people did not deserve to be pandered to. At the very least, it should have been made an optional thing that could be switched on or off by the player. I loved that the people looked more natural, rather than looking like glamour models all the time. By all means have some people who like to look that way, but it shouldn't be made the norm. We already have enough body issues in society without games reinforcing them.
I'd have liked if the collectibles in-game had quest markers. Maybe make them optional from settings and that means people can choose the level of help they get. Everyone wins. The exploring is fun, but it can get frustrating when that last thing eludes me.
I missed the Elcor, Hanar, Volus, and Quarian races. I understood the in-game reason for their absence, but I loved how varied they made things in previous games. Especially the Elcor. They made me feel like I was properly encountering new things. Aliens that are very different are the ones I found most interesting, and it doesn't really make sense for all species in a huge galaxy to be air-breathing, for example. I hope they'll return in future.
Other than those points, I enjoyed the game very much. The Mass Effect series is very close to my heart, and Andromeda reinvigorated my enthusiasm for the world. I love the Angara especially as a new addition. I loved learning about their culture. They're different enough that they gave humanity lots to learn, and Jaal is one of my favourite characters. I adore Reyes, and hope to see more of him. I just really want to see BioWare truly live up to its reputation for being progressive, and bring gay men and trans & non-binary people more into the fold as equals. I remain a loyal fan of these games, so I hope you will understand that my criticisms come from love, from a desire to see you do awesome things.
I really hope that the Mass Effect series continues, as I was really excited about the setup Andromeda has done, and I hope that the next one will be more inclusive from the feedback received. Andromeda is a good game, in my opinion. I wish it was more inclusive of gay men and trans folk, but that's my main criticism. It shouldn't have been rushed so much either, but I know that's more an EA problem. Most of the rest is fine. I believe that, in terms of inclusivity, BioWare is capable of better. Its flaws can definitely be addressed, if given the chance. Please include queer people in the conversation, especially in development. We want to love your games and give you money, but not if we are treated like we don't matter. If there's any way I can help as an individual, I will.
Thank you for making Andromeda, and for inviting feedback. The fact that Jaal is now bi shows reassuringly that at least some of you want to make things right. The Mass Effect world is a great one, with so much potential. A sci-fi setting allows not just for literal exploration, but it's a rich environment to explore big questions and issues. Games that make me think and feel deeply are what I love best, and Mass Effect does that so well. I dearly hope to return to that world in future.
Best,
Ash
Kittendumpling schreef:
The cutscenes with Cora in particular show the difference. It's lavishly detailed and well-animated, whereas the gay male cutscenes look like they had less effort, like the body models don't fit together quite right.
It's almost shocking how well animated that scene is considering the rest of the game's animation.
Kittendumpling schreef:
On a related note, I would love to see transness handled better. Please involve more trans people in development. Let them guide you to better representation. Nothing about us without us, as they say. Every trans character I've seen Bioware do (all 2 of them) was kind of casually outed and it was made their primary feature, which was rather icky, for want of a better word. I yearn to see trans folk being awesome in games, but it needn't be a 'thing' that the player has to comment on or ask intrusive questions. Having them voiced by cis people of a different gender is also not cool (Krem in DAI). There's no shortage of trans actors, and therefore no excuse.
I agree with Krem and Hainly being reduced to their gender identity. That was really poorly done. There was also a trans prostitute in Dragon Age 2 which was less of a character and more of a throwaway gag.
As for the casting of trans characters, it might be a more sensitive issue in a live action medium where certain groups are under-represented. In video games and other voice-over work, characters get cast outside their gender, race, or sexual orientation all the time and in all directions, so I don't think there's as much of a representation issue there. Krem may have been voiced by actress Jennifer Hale, but Jien Garson was voiced by trans actress Jamie Clayton even if the character's gender identity is never addressed in the game.
Kittendumpling schreef:
I really want to see games where gay men are heroic, brave, and desirable, as there's just not enough of that.
I think they definitely handled that better in Dragon Age. My favorite characters in DAI are Dorian and Sera. While Sera's orientation is not a major topic in the game, I think Dorian's personal story was very well written and acted.
