Xims on console

[BA2VGT]

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@Anlbrd wrote:

@DankTolietWatch enough footage of the two different types and you build up a fairly good sense of which is which.

I have to say though the "playing on a level playing field" argument is dead and gone, and it's nothing to do with Xim/Chronus. 3p controllers with extra buttons, paddles etc, playing on different monitors/tvs , even having an xbox one X instead of a normal one - these are things all confer an unfair advantage.

The days of consoles being all the same hardware and everyone on a level playing field have been over for a long time. This isn't an argument against Xim. If I use the level playing field logic : if some guy goes out and spends 2-300 bucks on a better controller than mine, I'd be well within reason to go out and spend the same money on a Xim, keyboard and mouse.

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Except that with a different TV, or even a more expensive (and imo useless anyway) controller you cannot perform acts that are completely impossible with a ds4.  And you can with a xim.  

Using a better TV or a controller with paddles is like buying an 1000 dollar bicycle to race your friend on a huffy.  Yes, it's lighter, maybe has a little less rolling resistance, and more gears...but you still won't beat your friend that's been going cycling every weekend.  

A xim is like bringing a moped.  

[Jem450R]

Microsoft has developed a controller for people with disabilities to use, its cheaper than a XIM/keyboard/mouse set up and a lot more useful if you have a disability...

[Anlbrd]

@BA2VGT Very specific and not widespread, but very common. RSI. Played with one guy once who had nerve damage in his right hand meaning he couldn't deal with aiming using his right thumb.

It's only an 'excuse' if someone is not acting in good faith. It would be a shame if people who have difficulties end up being collateral damage of a Xim purge.

[Anlbrd]

@BA2VGTIf what your analogy is right - I'm using a bicycle and beating people on mopeds every day.  I'd say it's probably not quite there.

[Anlbrd]

@Jem450R Bet everyone with a disability or physical impediment are glad they've got you here looking out for their interests and telling them what works best for them :D

The vast majority of people using a Xim aren't doing it because they're disabled - but this still puts us nowhere near being able to say "This disability thing is all nonsense and they can use something else thats better", lol.

[DankToliet]

@BA2VGT Wow hope you never have a child with disabilities....

[Silz616]

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@DankToliet wrote:
@iBlockHeadSo someone who's been using an analog stick for years and can control it better than you instantly means they're using a m&k?

Part of me feels you're one of the many that can't accept others are better than them and look for ANY excuse.

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You're missing the point. If Respawn flat out ban/unsupport Xim, then there is no discussion to be had. They have said they do not condone it and that they see it as an advantage.

I've played with amazing pad users, and I KNOW they play pad. It can be done, but I also know players who have used K&M and their movement, and rotation of aim along with accuracy is something they (personally) could not do on pad. So taking out XIM, would actually widen the skill gap. The best pad players would then hold a legit "skill" advantage. It would also be one less excuse for bad players to use, so it's a win win?

I use a normal DS4, but I can use that in the same way as a scuff. All the scuff is doing is moving buttons for convenience, but you can still play like that with a standard pad with practice (or claw). I can jumpshot, slide shot with a normal pad just fine.

Despite all the mental gymnastics, anybody using XIM is looking for an advantage imo.

[DankToliet]

@Silz616 You're correct in saying anyone using a XiM is looking for an advantage. That doesn't mean it's an advantage over other players. If you have years of experience and are just more comfortable using a m&k you would be at a disadvantage using a controller.

So, now that I agree with you. Let's see if you can agree with a FACT that many people just ignore. Because you seem like a reasonable guy. Regarding the Xim and Xim alone, not Keymander/Cronus/Hori/any other emulator. But you are aware that XIM simply translates all and only all movement and control from the controller its plugged into to other devices (I know people who play with a PS Move controller) meaning everything you can do in game with a m&k you can do with a controller.

That's why the XIM doesn't violate any Xbox or PSN Terms of Service, its restricted and governed by the controller it's plugged into and you're not gaining any "extra" stats or sensitivity, you're just mapping your controls and movement to another device.

Incoming that one and only one time Fortnite temporarily banned a "suspected" m&k user, yet you can plug one in today and never be punished. People stream all day on Twitch playing a wide variety of games with their IDs clearly visible and they don't get banned.

It'll never be detected without inconsequentially banning players using other 2nd & 3rd party devices.

[Silz616]

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@DankToliet wrote:
@Silz616You're correct in saying anyone using a XiM is looking for an advantage. That doesn't mean it's an advantage over other players. If you have years of experience and are just more comfortable using a m&k you would be at a disadvantage using a controller.

So, now that I agree with you. Let's see if you can agree with a FACT that many people just ignore. Because you seem like a reasonable guy. Regarding the Xim and Xim alone, not Keymander/Cronus/Hori/any other emulator. But you are aware that XIM simply translates all and only all movement and control from the controller its plugged into to other devices (I know people who play with a PS Move controller) meaning everything you can do in game with a m&k you can do with a controller.

That's why the XIM doesn't violate any Xbox or PSN Terms of Service, its restricted and governed by the controller it's plugged into and you're not gaining any "extra" stats or sensitivity, you're just mapping your controls and movement to another device.

Incoming that one and only one time Fortnite temporarily banned a "suspected" m&k user, yet you can plug one in today and never be punished. People stream all day on Twitch playing a wide variety of games with their IDs clearly visible and they don't get banned.

It'll never be detected without inconsequentially banning players using other 2nd & 3rd party devices.

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I'd simply say, give me a month with a XIM and my movement (due to keyboard button arrangements) and speed of aim would improve I'm sure. I've used one briefly, and just the ergonomics are more beneficial without time to adapt. Give me time and I will out perform myself on a pad. M&K is easier once familiar.

A standard pad has accelerated movement over time, and aim assist. There is very little movement involved with a stick, especially a DS4 as the sticks are so short. You can widen that area vastly with XIM and a more linear movement, which is damn near impossible on a pad lol.

All I'm saying is, if Respawn don't want you using it, and manage to detect and stop it's use, this discussion finishes.

I'm talking specifically about Apex here as you can set the response curve of your input device, which may not be present in other titles. I know this feature wasn't in Cod for example, but it was in TF2 if I remember correctly.

I'd put this decision at the devs door and not MS or Sony. There are benefits of using keyboard for ingame chat for example, and mouse can be handy for all manner of none competitive games, but in an online comp shooter, things need to be at least as close to fair as possible imo.

Edit: Tracking a moving target with a mouse is easier regardless, just because you are using wrist/arm fingers across a wide area and not a single digit across 2 inches.

[Wingmannedbro]

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@DankToliet wrote:
@iBlockHeadSo someone who's been using an analog stick for years and can control it better than you instantly means they're using a m&k?

Part of me feels you're one of the many that can't accept others are better than them and look for ANY excuse.

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One dead giveaway is jittery reticle movements. And in fact, Fortnite has been kicking people out of console games when their software detects motions that cannot be made with a joystick for a pretty long time now.