Winning has no meanining :l [ Edited ]

[RichAC]

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@cooperal1012 wrote:

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@RichAC wrote:

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@IDFeiWong wrote:

After over 300+wins I'm just getting bored with my team winning has literally 0 meaning anyone else feels that way?

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Hopefully they add a ranked skill rated match maker soon,  then you will have more of a challenge.

But even as an "e-sport"  the pro players have demanded a point system because they feel just going for the win is too boring for their streamers.   They also claim its not about skill,  as if strategy doesn't matter for anything and only twitch aim does... THey say anyone can just hide till the end.  But yet most of the pros complaining were the ones getting owned in the first coup le minutes of a match hahah.    IMO,  they just want more of an incentive to stream so their stream isn't boring.

I'd prefer watching a tourney host stream multiple players then watch a single stream anyways.  I say screw their stream.  This is e-sports not a reality tv show.  Twitch is only corrupting the sport.

I for one think anyone who wants to play this as an e-sport should move on to a diff game rather then undermine what the developers and game designers intended.  To those pro players I say Kick Rocks I'm not gonna be watching BR games as kill point matches.  Especially when they drop in pubs and play against noobs.   SO lame.     

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I still wouldn't call this an esport worthy title. There are very clear skill-based elements but there are still far too many aspects that are random or unreadable compared with successful esports.

For example with CSGO the only thing that is truly random is the bullet spread. And that is mainly amplified as a punishment for moving and shooting out of close range. But you know the enemies spawn point, roughly how many seconds it takes to travel from point A to point B. You can keep track of your opponents economy by continuously observing them throughout the match. And if you hit somebody you will always know what their maximum remaining health will be for the remainder of the round.

Overwatch isn't that much different. Remove movement inaccuracy. Replace the economy with ultimate progression. Instead you gauge the combination of heroes you're facing. And of course map knowledge still pays off.

In Apex Legends there are far too many question marks with the loot and your map knowledge can easily betray you when 19 other teams are going MIA for most of 20 minutes and have so much space to move. You'll have no idea what the enemy is packing in terms of guns, abilities or consumables until you actually see them. The most you can hope for until then is some distant telltale gunfire.

And that's before accounting for each individuals incentive to play in an esport setting. Even if Apex allowed us to create organised matches where tournament competitors could participate with each other directly, I feel like they would continue to choose to play the way they have been as you've said. Coming 20th place in the most top skilled match-up would make for terrible viewership, but also so would hiding for the sole reason of winning a cash prize. This is another contrast with those previously mentioned games. In CSGO and Overwatch you can't just get a good start and sit on it for a while, you won't win unless you keep doing well. This is just one more reason the tournaments play the way they play.

Not to mention it would be a recipe for grudges. Probably the worst thing is that too many of the "pros" on the scene have a twitch channel to worry about. So far the prizes is a pittance compared to what some people are making. (Just to be clear I am not using the prizes on offer against the games viability as an esport, but more how it might influence the players).

My conclusion? Just enjoy ourselves. It's a game. It's not completely fair and that's fine. S*** happens.

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The way you combat that is having a best out of multiple matches.   Same way they are claiming now the best will always be consistent when going for kill points against random noobs.   The best will always be CONSISTENT in any format.  They should still be consistent if it is about surviving to the end.     In fact the word consistency is what separates amateurs from pros.

Too much luck involved with weapon drops?   Make it a best out of 5 tourney then,  best out of 7.  10.   w/e it takes.  I'd rather see that then undermining the point of the game.  Society won't respect a game where wins don't matter.

I could say the same thing about Por Golf.  When one pro is playing earlier in the day with great weather conditions,  and another pro is playing late in the day in the rain lol.    Or wind changes,  Wind changes,  Sun light changes have huge impacts.   etc...  Thats why a tournament is multiple matches in golf as well.

AND you are right.  TWITCH is corrupting e-sports.  I still believe it is more about followers.   The claims about it being luck are bs.  They just want it to be more exciting for their twitch follower and subscripers.  Period.  Thats all its about.  Because some luck will be invovled no matter what.  Just like POKER.  Again the solution is multiple matches.  simple.

We shouldn't even be watching tourneys on their dam streams.  Although that German Comp team who was caught stream sniping got them all paranoid now lol.

[Jungle-Beard]

Professional gaming in of itself is a joke.  

Look at what happened to League of Legends.    They realized when you run a competition on not altered systems, these "Pro's" play worse than most randoms. It got so bad, that they had to start "Training" these pro teams on the Gaming Rigs they would use during the competition so they don't suck. 

Even Tetris, which has a professional tournament, a random new player beat the something times world champion with ease.  

The real pros are the people who play the game not for fame, or money, but for fun.

I've yet to encounter a single Streamer who does not completely suck when forced to used a non modified gaming rig. 

Of course this mainly goes for PC. Consoles still have the same issue, but to a lesser degree. 

[cooperal1012]

Woah Nelly! I didn't need a lecture! Consistency is the top word that I preach to others when gauging skill level. I wasn't arguing that some players will have good experiences and others would have bad experiences at the top level. Rather some players will have great experiences and some will have incredible experiences. When you are among the top players even the smallest changes can have long term repercussions, and like I've said this one happens to have a lot more uncontrollable, unreadable variables than the other games I've mentioned.

P.S. I also know my poker too. You can get better at judging a situation but you will never be able to choose the hand you get no matter your level of experience. Those uncontrollable variables I mentioned are like your poker hands. Though many hands are played in a single professional game. And poker is not a shooter, the focus is on risk assessment in a much purer form.

[VPPTrue]

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@TheImmortalEnt wrote:
most people in twitch hack. There's no way to be that good.

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Yes there is. 

[jmido8]

No matter what they add, winning won't have any meaning until they can handle the cheaters.

This game is so infested with cheats it's incredible. It's super rare to go 2 games in a row without speed hackers or aimbots ruining the game (asian servers at least).

[RichAC]

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@Jungle-Beard wrote:

Professional gaming in of itself is a joke.  

Look at what happened to League of Legends.    They realized when you run a competition on not altered systems, these "Pro's" play worse than most randoms. It got so bad, that they had to start "Training" these pro teams on the Gaming Rigs they would use during the competition so they don't suck. 

Even Tetris, which has a professional tournament, a random new player beat the something times world champion with ease.  

The real pros are the people who play the game not for fame, or money, but for fun.

I've yet to encounter a single Streamer who does not completely suck when forced to used a non modified gaming rig. 

Of course this mainly goes for PC. Consoles still have the same issue, but to a lesser degree. 

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No way I disagree.  Again,  the difference between pros and amateurs is CONSISTENCY, especially under pressure, and the fact they get paid.

And what are you talking about they had to be trained on new pcs?  It usually comes down to what mouse and keyboard and mousepad they prefer to use.   And mouse sensitivity.  I never heard anyone claim what you are and I was a big fan of Thresh and Fatal1ty back in the day>  I still watch Fatal1ty's streams.  I should ask this question to him.

Have you been watching the overwatch tourneys recently?   Have you watched any tourney online or are you just assuming all this.   They use diff keyboards mice and pads man.....Watch a lan tourney some time on twitch.  You will see this.

[RichAC]

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@cooperal1012 wrote:

Woah Nelly! I didn't need a lecture! Consistency is the top word that I preach to others when gauging skill level. I wasn't arguing that some players will have good experiences and others would have bad experiences at the top level. Rather some players will have great experiences and some will have incredible experiences. When you are among the top players even the smallest changes can have long term repercussions, and like I've said this one happens to have a lot more uncontrollable, unreadable variables than the other games I've mentioned.

P.S. I also know my poker too. You can get better at judging a situation but you will never be able to choose the hand you get no matter your level of experience. Those uncontrollable variables I mentioned are like your poker hands. Though many hands are played in a single professional game. And poker is not a shooter, the focus is on risk assessment in a much purer form.

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Still poker is on espn,  and the head of espn said he would never have e-sports on the network.   I find that disappointing but it is because e-sports is not treated like athletic sports so who can blame him.  And thats always my point.  If even the "pro" gamers playing the game don't respect the game like atheltes and fans respect football.  Why would anyone else in society.

What i suggest to be done in e-sports is simply what is done with atheltic sports in real life.  To me there are not much different.  You can't convince me otherwise.  IMO, it should be common sense.  But apparently its not that common,  especially SPORTS sense among online gamers.   I still think it boils down to selfish self entitlements.

In fact we don't have scouts or coaches or that many ex pros involved in diff leagues in e-sports since its not nearly as big as athletic sports>  But we do have computers and algorithms.  So it should be even MORE sporting.    I mean  go watch the movie Moneyball.

[BotWeston]

“Pc games have been dead for a decade” lmaooooooo get over your console * lololol

[RichAC]

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@BotWeston wrote:

“Pc games have been dead for a decade” lmaooooooo get over your console * lololol

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Actually i would say even longer.   2005 was the last great year imo.   Cheaters and Trolls really started taking over back then.   And I haven't owned a console since super nintendo buddy.  I'm a pc gamer who doesn' lie.  A very rare breed, last of the mohicans. lol.

Back in my days I would play BF2,  CS 1.6,  Quake  and always able to find good admin private servers with competitive matches.   Meaning balanced teams and legit players.      And almost always they were from my home state.   Now that DDOS is so strong.  Good admins have no way of protecting themselves.  So even if they ban players or keep a server fair,   they will get lagged or taken offline till they quit hosting.

In 2019,  Most pc games aren't even played by Americans anymore.  I'm lucky to find people to play with from my own country let alone my own state.  That alone should be evident enough.  Not to mention games that still have server browsers where you barely see 100s of people online at  a time.

At the height of cs 1.6 I would find just as many players online playing that I would in League of Legends.   I would find new servers that were hosted in my own neighborhood!!!!!   Thats why I say League of Legends is the only popular pc game by my standards, in North America, in 2019.  America use to be just like Korea bro.

The writing was on the wall when EA sports sold their sole rights to baseball in 2005.  And the two companies that bought them didn't even make a pc version.    Then in 2008 when EA sports abandoned all pc  games and went console only.  Then soon many companies who started on the pc,  went console only.

For years the only ea sports game was soccer which just reiterates my point that most Americans abandoned the pc long ago and its only foreigners left.   And really it is because we Americans were the first on the internet,  we've been there done that already long before anyone else,  and we know better.  We know better then to play with a bunch of fakes and spammers, which is what the internet has become.

[neillkorey]

@RichAC 

First off you make me hate Americans and I am an American we were here first we are the best because al gore made the internet we are smarter than everyone is what you sound like and I just googled it world wide seems like pc and consoles are neck and neck with market share but mobile was from 48-50 percent of the market so by your definition if you were as smart as you think you are you should be playing mobile and getting rid of consoles 

PS I play with plenty of Americans on pc so I think your attitude is why people don’t want to play with you your arrogance jumps out and punches people in the face not really the type of people that other gamers enjoy playing with