Re: What Do You Think Pathfinder Training Entailed?

by PretzleMe
Reply

Original Post

Re: What Do You Think Pathfinder Training Entailed?

★★ Pro

@Kaddris wrote:

You're right about the human SAM being an upgraded version.  We know that it's upgraded, but there's very little reason why anyone else in Andromeda would automatically buy that and not see a young Ryder promoted decades too soon to the Executive level of galactic exploration.  Even if others are told or have the intellectual knowledge, they're still ordinary characters who wouldn't necessarily get that rules were broken to develop a sentient AI of uncertain and unquantifiable ability.

 

I think the problem could mostly be solved in the early storyline, involving a few key individuals on the Nexus who would be aware of the human SAM's advanced status and thus be more naturally inclined to support him, despite his other apparently short personal resume.


I think it is more a case of it is part of the Pathfinders job to choose their own successor and since Alec chose Sara as his, it wasn’t an order they were able to question. Well they may be able to, but not one they are allowed to over-ride. Its part of their structure. Maybe if - in the case of the Asari arc the majority of the ARCs inhabitants and the ARCs CO all disagreed on a pathfinder - then it could be changed. Since the human chain of command was all present and would have had Lexi's report on Sara dying if SAM was removed they accepted her as Pathfinder so Nexus had no choice. Just my take on it.

Message 21 of 25 (1,006 Views)

Re: What Do You Think Pathfinder Training Entailed?

[ Edited ]
★★★ Pro

first, from what i recall... transferring/removing alec's modified sam interface/control systems/whatever from scott/sara could have been lethal, so unless murdering sara/scott is alright there wasn't an alternative.

 

as for the ryder kids. i thought being posted at a relay was like being part of an alert response unit, like swat, delta force, or navy seals... kind of like the arcturus fleet.

as for sara, wasn't she with a peace keeping force, then on a prothean recovery team? and just operating in the terminus is far from a walk-in-the-park, let alone protecting prothean ruins/artifacts from just about everyone. you could at least cut the kids a little slack.  

Message 22 of 25 (995 Views)

Re: What Do You Think Pathfinder Training Entailed?

★★★★★ Guide

Well, it is not the *best* story but I perceive it to have much sense actually. So my understanding is (and some possible SPOILERS ahead):

 

1. Alec Ryder was N7 and creator of SAM. He was one of the main *developers* of Pathfinder role, of how it is expected to function, of related protocols, and possibly required background and training.

 

2. There is a saying in many military traditions that perfect decision too late is much worse than imperfect action on time. Andromeda Initiative was aware from the very beginning that they were running on limited resources and that there was no time to debate and discuss all pros and cons on every single decision. So they agreed that dedicated person with a lot of experience, and possibly some additional training in relevant protocols will be ultimately responsible for making *some* of the decisions (like which planets to settle, where, and when; how to approach alien civilizations; etc.) with no option for others to veto. Since there is still a lot to consider on the fly when assessing planets, circumstances, and situations, SAM was supposed to provide enough instant-time feedback and analysis so those decisions could be truly taken by one person in a sensible way.

 

3. Scott and Sara have military background, and are adequately educated, but are far from being N7-level. Thus Alec's second in command was Cora, who is an accomplished biotic commando with a lot of skill and experience. Perhaps not N7-level, but pretty close. Being a Harper could have played a role as well - we won't be sure until the sequel. So the idea was to have Alec as human Pathfinder, with Cora as his back-up.

 

4. [BIG SPOILERS] Alec was aware of Benefactor, and was suspicious about him or her or them. Perhaps he suspected Cora to be a part of Benefactor's plan to take over the expedition, and perhaps (though I doubt it) Cora was even supposed to kill Alec shortly after arriving to Andromeda. Immediately before Alec actually died, he considered his options: there were very few people he could have truly trust, and he had his own agenda with SAM, Scott, Sara, and his wife. So it was pretty obvious that he selected his own child rather than Cora to take over SAM.

 

5. So Scott or Sara was bound to SAM, which as per Initiative protocols made him or her a Pathfinder. Alec's child is the only person that can employ SAM to evaluate planets, locations, and life forms in microseconds, and thus take informed decisions where others would need to base on luck or instinct. As per in-game explanation, there is no real way to select another Pathfinder without killing Scott/Sara, and actually there is no such precedence anticipated in Initiative protocols. So Scott/Sara now *is* a Pathfinder, no matter how much or how few experience he/she has.

 

6. As far as Nexus is concerned, there is really no one to question the choice. "Administrators" can mock Alec's child and play their politics all the way, but they are too inconsistent and divided to make any actual moves. There are in-fights, accusations, and emotional issues, plus Tann, Addison, and Kandros are probably well aware themselves that they are not the best people to govern the whole Initiative. When Ryder arrives to Nexus, Initiative is on a verge of extinction, and its administrators are expecting further bloody protests / domestic strikes. What they are actually doing is using Ryder as a diversion, and possibly as a scape-goat. If Ryder actually helps, they will be able to tell their people that they supported the Pathfinder from the very beginning, and that Initiative was eventually successful. If things go sour, they are willing to say: "OK, so there was a Pathfinder expected to help us. We had not trusted him or her, but that was his or her job, so we cooperated. He or she failed, so we will now need to take over again, and perhaps we will manage to find some other solution". They are petty clerks that are unexpectedly governing, and they need to play high stakes, so they are playing high stakes. It is a political game, and it actually makes much sense.

 

7. [BIG SPOILERS] From Benefactor's point of view Alec's child is an unknown. Situation is far from what his/her/their faction expected, with Scourge, Ketts, no paradise worlds, etc... And young Ryder is supposedly unaware of the hidden influence, so *not yet* a liability - just "a hazard" at most. Perhaps it would be OK to let Scott/Sara to play Pathfinder for a time, to decipher Remnant codes, to keep people happy, to act friendly with aliens. Of course, it would still require keeping Ryder under surveillance, and remaining prepared to remove him/her from the equation if need be. But there is no such need *yet*.

 

8. In the meantime, young Ryder turns successful. There are outposts founded, contact with Angara is much friendlier than it could have been, Ketts are being dealt with. There is no good reason to replace him/her, especially since lives of all the involved parties possibly depend on those successes. At the same time, all the involved parties want to remain on top, and thus they cannot allow Ryder to become too cocky. They need to temper him or her, and to make it clear that Pathfinder works for the Initiative rather than the other way around. So there is a lot of those nasty emotional, psychological, and political games. We do not know if Ryder is aware of the fact, and just plays along in order to remain in the game; or if he/she just does not yet feel secure in the role, and thus had not yet grown a backbone. All the same, until enough influence is gained, Ryder cannot play too hard - or he/she will be immediately removed from her functions as "untrained", "unskilled", "done her job already". Even if current administrators are unable to completely strip Ryder of Pathfinder status, they can still make his/her life a struggle, and to dampen all his/her efforts.

 

9. So here we are: young Ryder is a Pathfinder, not because he/she is the right person to be a Pathfinder. Alec played his hand well, and then it occurred to be an "acceptable" (or even "convenient") solution for all the involved parties - at least for a while. Young Ryder has few options, and must play nice, at least until he/she gathers own resources and builds own alliances - which always takes time. It is imperfect situation, and imperfect decision, but it was made on time, and proved to be right in hindsight.

 

10. [BIG SPOILERS] And I really do hope that Ryder is planning ahead, since Benefactor will certainly wish to either "buy" Ryders in; or to kill all the Ryder family sooner rather than later...

Message 23 of 25 (977 Views)

Re: What Do You Think Pathfinder Training Entailed?

★★★★★ Guide

I had to necro this post because I started playing again and this question is just nagging at me.  What training would Pathfinders (and back up Pathfinders) have that others wouldn't?

 

And how does one train for finding worlds in a galaxy we know nothing about?

Message 24 of 25 (954 Views)

Re: What Do You Think Pathfinder Training Entailed?

★ Pro

@PretzleMe wrote:

I had to necro this post because I started playing again and this question is just nagging at me.  What training would Pathfinders (and back up Pathfinders) have that others wouldn't?

 

And how does one train for finding worlds in a galaxy we know nothing about?


It's all guess work really. You can get a couple of hints in the conversation between Ryder and dad Ryder just before attacking the Kett base in the sense that certain things could be expected of someone who had pathfinder training.

 

So it seems to me that recon and first contact situations were part of that training and of course weapon's training. 

 

I do think though that it's clear that this is part of the problem of the game. It doesn't feel like things have been thought through very well and they just assume most people will buy the gaps or inconsistencies that might exist. BW has done a poor job at the last two expansion in SWTOR as well when it comes to the main story. Many plot holes and more importantly plot faults.

 

Think about this: even in our own milky way, there are many planets of many different races and lots of unknowns. I would've expected training to include going to different planets and uninhabitable ones as well. When I see how soft Ryder really is, she (he) feels totally unprepared and that just doesn't make sense to me. I would also think that the people involved were more mature for a job like this, instead of a barely out-of-her-teens girl that stumbles through the unknown galaxy with loads of good intentions and a knack for using weapons.

 

Let's be honest all that Ryder is really good at within the context of the game is going scouting and killing stuff. It seems that for all the bravado about the Initiative they certainly didn't prepare the people very well.

Message 25 of 25 (943 Views)