Too much drag on the 22 cars?

[Meza994]

Newest vid of Kiefer, testing a bit of stuff and for absolute minimum aero the top speed (in the Red Bull) was 346kph. Yet RB highest speed in qualifying was somewhere around 342 with by far not lowest possible downforce (gonna run lower downforce in Monza for sure). For those looking only at the speed trap, it wasnt at the fastest point of the track (ERS mapping caused higher speeds at the end of the first long straight).

I think when you run 0-0 aero the cars should be faster, possibly a wrong balance of aero-drag, so the cars should likely have less drag+less aero. At least Red Bull but yes, yes, yes i know its not the final performances😂 so relax, just wanted to point it out.

The general concept of the setup looks good, 45 kph difference between max aero and min aero and rear aero reduces top speed more, just as it should be.

PS. can we please get different physics for Mexico (less downforce, less drag)? Like pleeeaaase🥺🥺

[mariohomoh]

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@Meza994 wrote:

[...] possibly a wrong balance of aero-drag, so the cars should likely have less drag+less aero.

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Or, or – hear me out on this crazy thought! – it's a preview build with a vertical slice of the game put together 1+ month ago running the data they had accrued and coded in around March or early April at most? Haha sorry, I know you considered it already.

We know that we cannot give a fair assessment of the cars' performance. The only silver lining of this kind of discussion this early in the early access phase of the game is that you seem to be satisfied with the top speed delta between min. and max. downforce setups 🧐

[Meza994]

@mariohomoh What means considered? I explicitly pointed it out for people like you😂

I prefer to point it out now just in case😂 after last years case of the cars being actually faster than the 2020 cars we gotta be careful😂 and even though its a early build, that never meant everythings gonna change for release😝

[ScarDuck14]

😲😳

[mariohomoh]

Haha not saying it will change, mate! Just that the effort seems futile and thus unappealing to me when the majority of the cards have yet to be dealt out.

Just to be clear, the subject is top notch interesting! It's just that:

• Speed delta between low downforce and high downforce setups: 👍 – I'm truly happy that you liked it and it sounds like an attainable conclusion in the sense that no matter the powertrain performances, the game should still spit out a reasonable delta for those two extreme configurations;
• Top speed data: 👎 – too soon and it could be a number of things. Even if they had run their latest guesstimates of real life performance, could still be that they had to go on with a slightly off top speed to make up for a more crucial performance aspect elsewhere in the handling
• Aero-drag balance: 👎 – that's related to the lift-to-drag or downforce-to-drag ratios, or aerodynamic efficiency of the different bodywork components. It was once discussed in the OG forums here. I don't think we can leap to assess this one if we don't rule out the powertrain performance before. How can anyone reasonably say that whatever discrepancy to real world performance they're seeing are due to lift-to-drag ratio of the car instead of engine power?

[Meza994]

@mariohomoh Regarding the last part, the engine power is the part Codemasters can estimate the easiest. Not much different than the past years so can be expected to be fairly accurate.

I was more suggesting the setup rather to be -5 to 45 or even -10 to 40 on the current lift to drag ratio

[mariohomoh]

I have no idea what those numbers mean 🤣

We've all seen significant improvements from Ferrari, Alpine and Red Bull Powertrains/Honda engines, all catching up on their overall performance deficit to Mercedes. This would probably be coded in the game somehow following Codemasters' analysis of real world data even if we didn't have different cars to account for.

And as Greco said on his interview, even if we didn't have any regs changes the handling would still be different as they fine tune how all the different parts of the engine work together. It's a huge tapestry of interconnected systems, changing one interaction here has knock on effects to a whole different performance aspect over there. Like how changing the coefficient of grip, be it raw values or its scale or even how the engine operates with it, can output not only a different cornering performance but also straight line top speed.

Even of nothing else changed and the default values you see in the moddable game files were kept the same, if Codies changed the inner workings of the engine we would still see a different performance. And looks like they have done meaningful changes to the code, with proper sim of aero components and tyre model and so on and on.

[Meza994]

@mariohomoh Erm currently its 0-50 in the preview build so just a bit lower to start of haha

In relation to Mercedes all others came closer/surpassed them but Ferrari likely dont have 20bhp more now than Merc had last year.

Codemasters dont simulate specific engines since 2020.. They got engine type A and B. A is the better engine. No relevant differences for B engines no matter if Honda, Renault or Ferrari in F1 2021 but in Career mode they balanced it with the supplier upgrades changing everything not being comparable to real life (too much power for all cars).

Of course they always change the handling. But the desired power output of the engine wouldnt change, afaik they are now mostly equal to last years power output IRL and for the final top speed the fine tuned parts of the engine dont matter too much when the general power output is the same. Codemasters are able to read what the final power output is and will change it should it not be what they want.

Of course it is possible that they still had it wrong for the preview build and fixed it by now, as you said its all pure speculation at this point, but id rather expect them to get the power output immediately right at such a reg change than the aero and drag which are obviously very tough to gauge.

[Nuvolarix]

@Meza994 would love a Mexico patch too 😬😅

[DavidG53]

I cannot predict what they will be doing in Monza. Is possible they don't need to go so low on wings. Miami has like 2 fast corners, a bit like it would be as caro, and yet speed was only like 340.and you can definitely run more wing like ferrari or less like redbull at miami and be BTW 330 and 340kph. I can't predict.