Qualitative Feedback Collection for Bot Balancing [ Edited ]

[benn1nat0r]

UPDATED to mark certain problems as either fixed or not fixed

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As the announcement reads, the devs will be taking 2 kinds of data into consideration when adjusting the bots that fill empty pvp lobbies and are featured in private play. These 2 types of data are:

• Quantitative data (a lot of collected data on how the bots perform in pvp)
• Qualitative data (less feedback, as it is written by us, but very detailed)

The aim of this thread is to aid the remaining developers in their efforts. (If one of the devs is reading this, thank you for making my favorite game ).

I beg everyone who replies to explain their opinions / observations in great detail, so it will be more useful. Some things, of course, can't really be described in great detail, like bots being able to snipe you from nearly anywhere on the map.

Please read the "How does this thread work?" section and check if the problem you observed is already on the list before commenting. Thank you!

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General problems with AI Bots:

• Ultra precise aim & total awareness where you are, which means:

1. Bots can snipe across the map (mostly fixed, but still happens in half empty lobbies, especially in TT)
2. Drones are rendered useless 
3. Playing low health classes like Imp, Nightcap & Acorn isn't viable in a lobby with many bots 

• Walk straight into Potato Mines and Spikeweed (not fixed)
• Don't use cover (not fixed)
• Can use abilities while sprinting
• Can use abilities while reviving (can still happen, but is much more rare)
• Can sometimes use multiple abilities at once (not fixed)
• Can sometimes use abilities more than once as if there was no recharge
• Can start reviving and shooting directly after being revived while still being invulnerable
• Start every match sprinting (except healers) (not fixed, maybe intended)
• AI healers can find a perfect balance between healing and shooting and switch between them rapidly (Scientist), making them way more useful than actual players
• Therefore, if one team has an Ai healer and the other team isn't full, it should gain an AI healer as well (not fixed)
• They can sometimes get stuck (they won't move at all, sometimes while becoming invulnerable and not being able to shoot, as well as losing their name tag - video coming soon) (not fixed)
• Can turn directly / instantly towards you and ability spam you (mostly fixed, but still happens in half empty lobbies, especially in TT)
• Zombie Bots can shoot and activate abilities while being eaten by a Chomper using "Burrow" (don't know if fixed)
• Bots don't summon spawnable AI (not fixed)
• There is no option to have bots in ops, which can make you feel lonely if there are no other players. (not fixed)
• AI snipers are useless (not charging their shots and would be unfair if they could) (not fixed)
• They taunt you way too often, even if there are multiple enemies around

Character specific problems with AI Bots:

80's Action Hero:

• Rocket ride obliterates you in 1 second, every rocket lands a hit
• Because the aforementioned problems, he can use this ability more than once and his primary is a pain to deal with because he never fails to hit you with a charged shot

Citron:

• Navel Laser's aim is perfect, it destroys you in seconds, just like Rocket Ride

Wizard:

• Primary is a pain to deal with because it deals a lot of damage and always hits you (in addition to sniping)
• His secondary deals damage way more often than when a player does it

Chomper:

• Can use his secondary while sprinting
• Sometimes uses "Burrow" to retreat, even if there is no reason to (not fixed)
• Can get stuck underground using "Burrow" or can get stuck in place after using it (not fixed)

Acorn:

• Can use his 2 dashes without delay
• Can use Acorn Dash more than twice

Soldier:

• Can use the ZPG rocket multiple times without delay
• Can use Super Stink Cloud multiple times without delay
• Sometimes doesn't do the ZPG fire animation (not fixed, maybe just due to lag)

Peashooter:

• Randomly stops firing while using Pea Gatling (not fixed)

Nightcap:

• Can shoot her primary and use other abilities while using Shadow Sneek (some parts of it are now features)

Corn:

• Uses Husk Hop to reach places he could easily reach using a normal jump (fixed?)
• Sometimes doesn't do the Shuck Shot activation animation and can use it multiple times, just like Soldier
• Husk Hop warps towards the spot where you were standing when he activated, but it only deals damage later, making it useless, as you can casually walk a few steps to the side to dodge it (not fixed)

Imp:

• Because he has ultra precise aim, he is a pain to deal with (I feel like I'm repeating myself ), considering the small hit box
• Can use Impkata multiple times
• z-Mech also is also way too precise and lands every missile when using Missile Madness, like 80's Action Hero

Cactus & Deadbeard

• Should be removed, because: they don't charge their shots and can easily be vanquished and it would be terrible to have aimbots insta-kill you (not fixed)

Sunflower:

• Can use Heal Beam while sprinting
• Way too god at healing, just like Scientist (not fixed)

Scientist: 

• Can switch between shooting and healing instantly and multiple times in a second (not fixed)
• Way too good at overhealing the entire team (not fixed)

Thank you for reading and participating!

Yours truly,

a hopeful Acorn (@benn1nat0r)

[benn1nat0r · Accepted solution]

How does this thread work?

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If you find a problem that isn't on the list and hasn't been fixed by the developers yet, you can describe it via reply and I will add it to the list.

Thank you for participating

[TheSprinter85]

Good stuff on making this post! 

Aimbot should have tweaking, do not allow them to do things that players cannot, but perhaps all Al should have a small passive damage or health buff to make up for lack of character upgrades they can use. 

In Private Play, Al should gain even more Aimbot then they do now in Crazy!, but in easier modes reduce it instead. 

[Iron_Guard8]

One thing they should add that bots in GW2 have, is that bots on the team that lack players should summon AI (bot/pots for defender in TT and some other modes, weeds/brown coats for the attacker in TT).

[gametrieuk]

@benn1nat0r the best i can do is indicate a post about some feedbacks that i had collected.

https://answers.ea.com/t5/General-Discussion/The-community-response-Bots/m-p/9440049#M25859

[TheSprinter85]

Check this post @benn1nat0r. Thanks for the idea @gametrieuk. 

https://answers.ea.com/t5/General-Discussion/How-Al-Should-be-Tweaked-Suggestion/m-p/9473704#M27246

[benn1nat0r]

Oh hey, the thread got pinned to the top .

Now we have a place to collect all of the feedback.

@gametrieuk & @TheSprinter85 

Thank you for sharing your threads. I will add the feedback from there to here in the next couple of days. I remember @stukapooka making a few such threads a while back as well, but I can't find them. I will also add them once I find them.

I will, of course, credit everyone who participates in the bot discussion now or has in the past. I will add the usernames, but not mention everyone. I will edit the thread a lot, and I don't want everyone to get an email every time I edit the thread.

[agqwpe663oe6]

@benn1nat0r Bots have aimbot, making stealth redundant. Bots can also do things like use heal beam while sprinting. Finally, the fact they can take up entire lobbies seem pretty unfair. They should only make teams have the same amount of players, such as making a 5v2 lobby into a 5v5 instead of a 12v12 to make the game actually multiplayer.

[voidlistener]

Apart from tweaking, we need AI to be less suicidal. I mean, if they can acknowledge our position, they should be able to cover from us and reconsider their life choices.

[Fork_x_Spoon]

AI snipers need to charge their shots. If they remove aimbot, they'll miss more shots which will still make them useless.

[Gormey]

@voidlistener I get about 8 kills a game as cactus from depressed bots walking into mines in plain sight, it's sad really, they need a help line I think.