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Observations of a long time gamer on Anthem.

by Penitent
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Original Post

Re: Observations of a long time gamer on Anthem.

[ Edited ]
★★★★★ Novice

@Silienea wrote:
You know, you lost your argument at the first paragraph.
Take a break, go play current wow or some other guaranteed progression game and have fun.

Personal attacks only serve to undermine your point.

Here is a refference for you
https://wowwiki.fandom.com/wiki/Molten_Core_loot
Each boss dropped 1 or 2 pieces for the entire raid. That's it.

AQ40 was similar.

I am glad you think I am a problem and you are not. I will continue to support and enjoy the game for giving me variety of ways to progress.


I think you mean a variety of ways to not progress. Secondly, don't tell me what to play. If I wanted to play WoW I'd be playing WoW. You go play WoW since you like "crafting" so much you hypocrite. It's got a much more comprehensive and rewarding crafting experience for you. Thirdly, I didn't lose anything. You've clearly got some sort of reading comprehension deficiency. In your first response you said WoW had "40 man raids that dropped one piece of loot for the entire raid." Now you're saying "each boss dropped 1 or 2 pieces for the entire raid." You can't even get your story straight. Which is it? 1 drop an entire raid (maximum of 1 drop per raid)? Or 1 or 2 drops per boss (x10 = maximum of 20 drops per raid)?

 

Again, I was there. I raided Molten Core. I know what it was like. You're plainly making misleading statements motivated by sheer personal prejudice. You also haven't played it in a very long time, or you're deliberately omitting a lot of things because they contravene your position. Like epic drops in those 40 man raids were essentially the equivalent of legendary drops in Anthem, better even, because every stat on the item was useful in addition to being an item level upgrade. Furthermore, getting loot in present day WoW is far, far easier, than it was in Vanilla with the reduction of raid sizes from 40 to 25 people and the introduction of Mythic+ and personal loot. Not to mention that, as stated previously, loot can now be shared with other raid members should you receive an item you don't need, but which is an upgrade for someone else, or vice versa. 

I never said I wanted Anthem to copy Vanilla WoW (or even present WoW) in every facet. This is a ridiculous strawman that ignores all of the changes made to that game in the subsequent 15 years since it launched. (Which is why you keep referring to Vanilla. You're trying to compare Anthem to what is arguably the "worst" version of WoW, from a loot perspective, to make the former look better than the latter.) I never said I wanted weekly lockouts in Anthem for example; I don't. But not all loot is gated behind weekly lockouts in WoW anyway. You can run M+ dungeons, which scale in difficulty in perpetuity, ad infinitum. (I think the world record was +28 in Legion or something.) And M+, just like raiding, allows for planned progression. I used to do Arcway +15 over and over for a haste trinket (my best secondary stat) that was obtainable only from the loot table of the last boss of that dungeon. As I said earlier this is from where real replayability comes. Not roaming around aimlessly hoping some random god-roll falls into your lap. But a proper, fixed dispersal of items throughout content, that requires different classes to do the same content (cooperatively) for items integral to their progression.

There's a reason people are only doing the first two chests in HoR and leaving over and over. Because there's nothing the last boss drops they can't get from the first two chests for far less time and effort; i.e., excessive RNG is hurting replayability; because as Josh Mosqueira correctly observed RNG is not replayability. 

Message 41 of 57 (141 Views)

Re: Observations of a long time gamer on Anthem.

★★★ Apprentice

@Penitent 

 

I really just want to hug you.

Message 42 of 57 (140 Views)

Re: Observations of a long time gamer on Anthem.

[ Edited ]
★★★★★ Novice

@IntlGJournal wrote:

@Penitent wrote:

@IntlGJournal wrote:
I love it when kids try to act grown up, I could listen to this for hours lol. In my incapacity for dialectics and my diminuitive vernacular, I nevertheless managed to inch him ever so slowly toward brevity.  

[snip yet another wall of text]


Oh, I know and understand all of the gratuitous words you use. Don't try to compete with me on language skills, you will lose in humiliating fashion. I just enjoy watching you ping-pong your responses. When I joined others in commenting on your verbose style, you shot back succinct. When I then noted your brevity, you responded with another treatise, citing your refusal to let me dictate the length of your posts. Hilarious. I'm eager to see your next response.

 

And no, you're not older than me, I can guarantee you that. I don't have to prop up my gaming credibility by posting that I'm a "long time gamer", but I'm pretty sure I was writing software before you knew what software was.

 

So enjoy yourself! I'm certainly enjoying you. ;-)


That's funny. I forgot you existed at all. Furthermore, you've yet to render in response anything even remotely suggesting you're capable of even participating in, much less prevailing, in a dual of wits with me or anyone else. Your dialectic and prosaic prowess could be described as abecedarian at best. You are a dilettante, a smatterer, a spectacle of sciolism. Frankly speaking, I discard more cerebricity than you possess in your entire body, in a white porcelain bowl every morning before I have even begun my day. You're not worth my time. So don't expect me to entertain this self-aggrandizing farce you think repartee. You're a thread hijacking troll. Nothing more.

Message 43 of 57 (139 Views)

Re: Observations of a long time gamer on Anthem.

[ Edited ]
★★★★★ Novice

@munkt0r wrote:

The problem with Division 1 at launch was that everyone had the best in slot in the first weekend...not that it was difficult to get good loot...

 

 


The Division sucked, and failed, because the story was nonexistent. It was plagued by game breaking exploits and bugs. (Exempli gratia, water puddles were sometimes holes in the ground and you'd fall through the map if you walked into them.) The DZ was thronged with hackers. The loot/crafting system was (hyper randomized and therefore) terrible. Storage space was horrendously inadequate and poorly devised. Global chat was filled with Chinese spam and virtually unusable. It was marred by shady monetization practices (like charging extra for items in pre-order they subsequently gave away for free in the game). Et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. It was a broken mess at launch (much worse than this game) and remained that way for months until I quit playing.

So you'll forgive me if I discard your hyper-reductionistic assessment of that title. I was there. I know why it failed. I built a PC for that game. Anyone with a functioning brain would immediately recognize that game failed for making design choices that are remarkably (and disturbingly) similar to those made by Bioware with Anthem.

 

They say the definition of insanity is what?

Message 44 of 57 (136 Views)

Re: Observations of a long time gamer on Anthem.

★★★★★ Novice

@Aksu wrote:

@Penitent 

 

I really just want to hug you.


Thanks bro. High five

Message 45 of 57 (135 Views)

Re: Observations of a long time gamer on Anthem.

★★ Novice

@Penitent wrote: [...]

• Item power (e.g., the damage a weapon does) should primarily (if not exclusively) be contingent upon progression, i.e., where/how you got it. NOT CASINO SLOT MACHINE ROLLSSimply put, doing higher level content and killing harder enemies should be what yields more powerful gear, which in turn enables the player to progress to yet more difficult content.

 

• There needs to be guaranteed rewards for time investment. Not everything has to be guaranteed, but something has to be guaranteed


This is an astonishingly well written, spot-on post. While I do not mind guns giving armor bonuses and vice-versa, everything else is a very good description of the core Anthem problems.

I'd like to add that WoW, and many others, put before you a "ladder" of skill and time, and you decide how far you wish to climb it. Each step of the ladder is nearly impossible without doing well on the previous step, each step takes time, each step makes you really grow in power and almost certainly, in skill. To enter that super hard raid or instance and to stand a chance, is a privilege few can attain, yet alone complete it. But if you do complete it, or you are close, makes you think that time spent was FOR some PURPOSE other than casino rolls.

 

I've taken the liberty to quote a TL;DR; version of the two most important issues (IMHO).

Message 46 of 57 (132 Views)

Re: Observations of a long time gamer on Anthem.

[ Edited ]
★★★★★ Novice

@JRK_1024 wrote:

@Penitent wrote: [...]

• Item power (e.g., the damage a weapon does) should primarily (if not exclusively) be contingent upon progression, i.e., where/how you got it. NOT CASINO SLOT MACHINE ROLLSSimply put, doing higher level content and killing harder enemies should be what yields more powerful gear, which in turn enables the player to progress to yet more difficult content.

 

• There needs to be guaranteed rewards for time investment. Not everything has to be guaranteed, but something has to be guaranteed


This is an astonishingly well written, spot-on post. While I do not mind guns giving armor bonuses and vice-versa, everything else is a very good description of the core Anthem problems.

I'd like to add that WoW, and many others, put before you a "ladder" of skill and time, and you decide how far you wish to climb it. Each step of the ladder is nearly impossible without doing well on the previous step, each step takes time, each step makes you really grow in power and almost certainly, in skill. To enter that super hard raid or instance and to stand a chance, is a privilege few can attain, yet alone complete it. But if you do complete it, or you are close, makes you think that time spent was FOR some PURPOSE other than casino rolls.

 

I've taken the liberty to quote a TL;DR; version of the two most important issues (IMHO).


Thank you for your kind and objective response. I can't dispute your observations. That's the fundamental difference between WoW and Anthem. As I said previously. A Javelin I've played a total of two times (for about 30 mins or so) has better gear than one I've been playing for probably over 80 hours at this point, proving unequivocally that reward has no correlation to effort, or skill, or even logic in Anthem.

As for the stats on guns, I was merely trying to reduce ambiguity, and make the system overall less convoluted and random. Could that be done in other ways? Certainly.

Message 47 of 57 (128 Views)

Re: Observations of a long time gamer on Anthem.

★★★ Apprentice

@Penitent wrote:

@munkt0r wrote:

The problem with Division 1 at launch was that everyone had the best in slot in the first weekend...not that it was difficult to get good loot...

 

 


The Division sucked, and failed, because the story was nonexistent. It was plagued by game breaking exploits and bugs. (Exempli gratia, water puddles were sometimes holes in the ground and you'd fall through the map if you walked into them.) The DZ was thronged with hackers. The crafting system was (hyper randomized and therefore) terrible. Storage space was horrendously inadequate and poorly devised. Global chat was filled with Chinese spam and virtually unusable. It was marred by shady monetization practices (like charging extra for items in pre-order they subsequently gave away for free in the game). Et cetera., et cetera., et cetera. It was a broken mess at launch (much worse than this game) and remained that way for months until I quit playing.

So you'll forgive me if I discard your hyper-reductionistic assessment of that title. I was there. I know why it failed. I built a PC for that game. Anyone with a functioning brain would immediately recognize that game failed for making design choices that are remarkably (and disturbingly) to those made by Bioware with Anthem.

 

They say the definition of insanity is what?


Repeating the same thing over and over again, and expecting a different result?

 

And yes, you are absolutely right. Div 1 was the game as far as I was concerned, until I started playing into the end game. The idea was sound, the implementation was wretched, and I purchased the ultimate gold super saiyan edition with spinny rims. And then subsequently quit within a month because of the wretched state of the game.

 

I see a lot of similar mistakes in this game, and that doesn't even address issues like horrible AI, technical issues, and what not. I get that its a new game, and the developers need time to address issues, but there are some fundamental flaws in the basic structure of the game that will prevent it from achieving its full potential. And unless those are met...... the game becomes a ghost town.

 

The worst part about that is, a great many gamers don't give second chances. You fail miserably at the start, and don't quickly address the issues, and people tend to not come back. Div 1 never really recovered. Anthem's headed that way, and people that just blithely defend it, aren't helping.

 

I guess they have to ask themselves, is the success of the game their primary goal? And if so, is simply telling people to stop whining going to achieve that goal?

 

And ironically, people trying to suggest issues constantly having to defend themselves from attacks like that, detracts from the overall discussion, and submission of good ideas. And that's assuming the developers even want those ideas.

 

Ah well. What do I know?

 

Message 48 of 57 (125 Views)

Re: Observations of a long time gamer on Anthem.

[ Edited ]
★★★★★ Novice

@Aksu wrote:

Repeating the same thing over and over again, and expecting a different result?

 

And yes, you are absolutely right. Div 1 was the game as far as I was concerned, until I started playing into the end game. The idea was sound, the implementation was wretched, and I purchased the ultimate gold super saiyan edition with spinny rims. And then subsequently quit within a month because of the wretched state of the game.

 

I see a lot of similar mistakes in this game, and that doesn't even address issues like horrible AI, technical issues, and what not. I get that its a new game, and the developers need time to address issues, but there are some fundamental flaws in the basic structure of the game that will prevent it from achieving its full potential. And unless those are met...... the game becomes a ghost town.

 

The worst part about that is, a great many gamers don't give second chances. You fail miserably at the start, and don't quickly address the issues, and people tend to not come back. Div 1 never really recovered. Anthem's headed that way, and people that just blithely defend it, aren't helping.

 

I guess they have to ask themselves, is the success of the game their primary goal? And if so, is simply telling people to stop whining going to achieve that goal?

 

And ironically, people trying to suggest issues constantly having to defend themselves from attacks like that, detracts from the overall discussion, and submission of good ideas. And that's assuming the developers even want those ideas.

 

Ah well. What do I know?

 


Superb response, sir. The notion you can't criticize something you like is absurd, and yet it's a common strawman response from blind loyalists. You can like a person for example, even love them, and yet still dislike some things about them. That doesn't mean you hate the person. And likewise, just because I am critical of some things about this game, doesn't mean I hate the game. Quite the converse actually. I don't waste my time offering advice for games I dislike, or for which I don't care, at all. I've never posted on the forums of a single game I hated. Ever. I don't even bother to make an account.

 

The real irony is these decisions are typically made for "money reasons." But what's made more money? A game with a consistent standard for loot quality that's been going for 15 years (WoW), or one that was hyper-randomized and dead within 3 months (The Division)? My post here was merely a reiteration of the same things I said on The Division's forums when that game launched. They didn't listen or care. So be it. The result is I quit their game and never went back, and they don't have my repeat business. After the travesty that was their first title I have no plans whatsoever to buy the second installment. I can't say I'll never go back to WoW though.

 

Truth is I think there's too much RNG in WoW also. But when you play a game like this, it really makes WoW feel like a blessing by comparison. At any given time in WoW I not only have something to do, but a discernible path to get to my objective. There's no wandering around aimlessly killing random stuff and hoping I get something good. If I need a trinket upgrade, I can pull up the loot table of every dungeon and raid, and see which bosses have trinkets. I can filter them by class/spec and then make a list. Boss A, B, and C have trinkets with those stats. I know what I'm doing for the next week if not longer now. I'm doing that content for that trinket. Now multiply that by multiple bosses that all drop different things you need and you've got literally months of replayability between dungeons, raids, etc.

 

Conversely, why kill the last boss in HoR? What's he got that can't be gotten elsewhere? Why even go to the second chest when it has nothing that can't be gotten from the first? And how long will chest farming for (usually) atrociously randomized garbage, last and be fun to anyone but the diminutive sliver of lunatics that more resemble ants, than men, in their contentment with the most superficial of monotonous tasks?

 

If this game had a loot system that was genuinely designed, instead of a slot machine masquerading as one, it would perhaps be the best shooter/looter on the market. Hands down better than Destiny. But it doesn't. And as you've observed, history illustrates they've not got very long to correct that. Given the current model I feel like they'll get a few more weeks out of me tops. I'm already suffering a high degree of RNG fatigue. And Warframe is always just a click away, has static loot drops/stats, and free.

 

So again, what do they say is the definition of insanity? And with that in consideration, who's trying to save this game, and who's trying to kill it? Me or my detractors advocating for maintaining the status quo?

Message 49 of 57 (104 Views)

Re: Observations of a long time gamer on Anthem.

[ Edited ]
★★★★★ Novice

Once again something that would never happen in WoW.

 

Anthem Loot Item Level.jpg

 

What the heck is even going on in this game?

Also, I feel like combos are too emphasized in the game. Outside of easy content, weapons often almost seem useless (unless they have large +dmg rolls), and damage is far too reliant upon +dmg combo/ultimate use. I can't help but feel like combos should be more of an incremental bonus, enough to induce you to make an effort to use them, but not so much they basically render firearms spitball shooters by comparison. Something feels so fundamentally wrong about having to put 300 bullets into even the weakest mobs to kill them. Ammo amount should be boosted by at least 300% or something if this is how it's going to stay.

 

But this is all just wishful thinking on my part. Fixing this game would require a complete overhaul of the loot system and I seriously doubt they'll do that. Increasing drops is all well and good, and I'm glad they're doing something at least, I guess, but it's just a band aid. A higher drop chance doesn't mean much when you're just getting more of what is essentially trash that goes straight into salvage, which you then use in a hyper-randomized crafting system that is little more than a great way of converting 15 embers into 1 (because 99.99% of that crap goes into salvage also). The entire system seems designed to take your time, and resources, and turn them into nothing. If I wanted the experience of trading a week of my life for nothing, I'd go throw down my paycheck at a roulette table. I am not looking for that in a video game. 

Message 50 of 57 (58 Views)

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