July 2021
While I work on the XP ideas, I wanted to talk about how to move the BfN characters into a more GW-like environment with the idea of balancing things, and opening up room for variants of these characters. Some are much easier to do than others.
As always, these are my ideas and thoughts. I’m not claiming I know everything, but I like to think about these games a lot and want to help make the next game be the best ever. I welcome feedback and your ideas as well.
Important notes:
Zombies:
Electric Slide:
Space Cadet:
80s Action Hero:
Wizard:
Plants:
NightCap:
Acorn/Oak:
Snapdragon:
Iceberg Lettuce:
July 2021 - last edited July 2021
@Iron_Guard8If torchwood isn't in the next game maybe a fire acorn variant could transform into him for a mech.
Ice snapdragon shouldnt be that hard for design since he's in pvz 2.
Maybe this disco slide could send out a disco ball that forces all plants to dance in its aoe like the lights in zombopolis to support her team.
Fire being snapdragon's base form is a good move but I dont feel like his abilities have to change for every variant as they would take a lot of time. His afterburn should now be lethal to incentivise staying away from him.
Snapdragon as a pot should also return.
Rocket ride could be a bomb the area ability on a long cool down.
Regardless of abilities, 80s needs to be less effective as a sniper and more of a mid range attacker that can attack with missiles.
Bfn mech was just stupid in how good it was unlike gw2 with its explosion and imps survival factor by not hoing down on its death. full revert of the mech to gw2 standards imo.
Nightcap is easy to find in bfn because she leaves puffs of smoke while walking making her far too easy to track and eliminate, she doesn't need to be a copy of the spy but she could definitely take a few lessons from him to be more effective.
Wouldn't mind the upgrade system being toned down as some were far too effective in bfn or were a must for certain characters so returning to a simpler health, reload, damage, overheat, and regen system but with the point system of bfn and not the regular 3 cap limit to work with variants returning would be best.
Would like to see these characters reworked for a new game but if they were scrapped for more workable characters I would completely understand.
July 2021
@stukapooka as always, thanks for the feedback.
I definitely want the snapdragon potted plant back, in fact all the summonables from all 3 games would be available, and more besides.
A Fire Oak as a variant would be much like Torchwood I'm sure.
The forced dancing could work for the Electric Slide but players may really hate that she can summon that instead of the automatic ones from Zombopolis though, as it would give her control and could be really difficult to deal with for the plants. Great idea as we've seen it before and it fits, but a little worried about how good it would be, especially on capture points.
Afterburn should indeed be lethal, thanks for pointing that out. Nerfing his other abilities, especially swoop slam, should make that a more viable option. As for the abilities, not against leaving them as is, but having the cold Snapdragon leave a fire trail feels weird. I'd not be upset if they did that though. Cold Snapdragon was a favorite in PvZ2.
I love the current Rocket Ride as is when you don't abuse the upgrade that makes it keep going and you can drive it around. Part of the balancing of the ability was that you can easily be taken out as you're stuck in the air and plants can get away from you as it takes a little time for the rockets to all fire.
I'd be fine with them changing 80s from a sniper to more of mid-ranged character. That would see him getting some damage attenuation increase of course so he'd be less effective at long range.
BfN mech is so odd, the best use of it is to drive it into the plants and self-destruct. I'm 100% on board with making the mech back to GW2 standards.
I believe Nightcap's puffs are so the invisibility isn't perfect. They're hard to see in a fight as you've got other things to worry about most of the time, but you can still deal with her if you're observant. The TF2 spy can disguise themselves too, so while I would make her more similar to the TF2 spy as far as being an assassin, she would still be distinct.
The upgrade system of 7 points in BfN is great but I agree that too many are too good or not very good at all. They'd have to work on them in detail before a new game, and some variants would have different upgrades from the base character too.
July 2021
July 2021 - last edited July 2021
Great points as always!
In a potential new shooter, I would love to see the new characters from BfN to be in the game again. The new characters were actually quite fun to play, and still are actually, but some characters (Ice Lettuce and there might be others we did not know about) never made it into the game and I would have really liked to try them. Since Ice Lettuce specifically was fully developed (or was really close to it) but was never implemented, it would be cool for players to be able to finally play her. Adding variants to some of these new characters might be difficult, for example, Electric Slide or Snapdragon, but perhaps, making those characters an elemental variant and changing the default character as you suggested was a good idea. Variants were a significant part of GW and GW2 and that is a large part of what players enjoyed about those games and what made the PvZ shooter games unique across the shooter genre. Removing variants in BfN is something I got used to, but would like to see them return.
Not gonna lie here, I did not mind the sprinting in BfN, but there are few things I want to say to that. Firstly, I would be completely fine with the removal of sprinting in a future shooter, because it made the game somewhat more unfair, such as tanky characters being as fast as smaller but weaker characters (which is actually quite annoying). Secondly, I did not like how every character moved at the same speed, I actually liked the speed differences in GW2. Some characters did have abilities that did make them faster or that gave them a burst of speed, but that is fine because they require the use of abilities and that is part of their character design. Although, if sprinting was removed in a future shooter (it should to be honest), there should be a speed upgrade available for every character that would grant a decent speed boost, but it would be fairly costly to equip.
Damage drop-off is actually something I really liked in GW2, as I do prefer attacking enemies at closer ranges and not attacking across the map, unless a sniper of course. Being shot down by random spam across the map is very annoying. The damage drop-off also made the game feel more balanced as players were required to engage at close ranges in order to effectively deal damage. However, some characters, such as Snipers and melee characters, should not have damage drop-off because of the way that these character classes are actually designed. Most of the other characters would probably need it. When BfN released, it was very surprising to see that there was no damage drop-off in game, and that it was never added in the future updates despite the community wanting it for so long. This should be in a future shooter from the very start of its release.
I would really like to see at least most of the character upgrades return, especially the legendary upgrades, as well as adding some more regular and legendary upgrades to the game. However, all of the current legendary upgrades and some of the regular upgrades would need balancing, because the legendary upgrades were either too underpowered or too overpowered in BfN. They did replace variants in BfN though, so I suppose that there would be a lower chance for them to be added if variants were in a new shooter instead, as it could be a bit of work to implement both. That said however, they already have the current variants from GW2 and the current upgrades from BfN. If the upgrade system was reimplemented and variants still did not return, I feel there should be a much wider variety of upgrades to choose from, including some that would basically transform characters into character variants.
I did not mind the swarm characters that much in BfN, however it does seem that were introduced as "filler characters" as others have said. That said, the swarm characters had interesting abilities and teamwork skills, so I feel that if they are handled correctly, they could be implemented. Soon after the game's release, balancing should be done appropriately with the appropriate characters. This would involve buffing or nerfing characters as necessary, fixing bugs and exploits that can be done with characters and not unnecessarily buffing or nerfing a character either if it is not needed. BfN made some quite good balancing changes, but also some very questionable and unnecessary ones, I mean Grody Goop was already powerful, so why does it need to do so much more damage all of a sudden? The balancing would also involve making upgrades cost less or more as necessary, or be made more or less powerful (or both).
In Conclusion
In a potential future shooter, it would be really cool to see the new characters that debuted in BfN, and even the ones that never got to see the light of day (such as Iceberg Lettuce) to finally be playable. Variants (from GW and GW2) and character upgrades (from BfN) are both really cool, having both in a future shooter would actually be really cool, but doing that might be really hard to achieve as all that would be a lot to implement. Having no damage drop-off in BfN was annoying, as it was something the community really wanted in the game, but it never got introduced, so hopefully this would be rectified in a new shooter. Having characters with varied speeds and without sprinting would overall be better in the PvZ shooters, or it can make gameplay quite unfair. If we saw these changes in a new shooter, the game will end up turning out really well, especially if balance is maintained.
That's all now!
July 2021
Zombies:
Electric Slide/Disco Queen:
Funky Bouncer is okay to me, fixing capture issues and maybe adding some screen shaking would do.
Outta Fight definitely should lose the regen. I wonder if it could have shorter duration but deflect attacks back at plants.
Disco Tornado could be replaced with a Disco Ball, but I feel like this would make a great alternative upgrade to Funky Bouncer. Forced dancing is fine as long as it is not something that stays on the field. Maybe just one round of "Hurray" Taunt for plants and zombies alike in surrounding area with low cooldown.
Space Cadet:
Preserving Space Station is possible if we are nerfing/removing overhealth and removing health merge. Picking off one Space Cadet at a time or the core Station would be easier even with shields. Although having giant orbital laser instead of that joke at Turf Takeover is really cool.
I also would replace the rocket with spawning a couple of Miner Problems
Plants:
Nightcap:
Fung Fu can be simply solo target or damage to a random single target per tick in the area. That way Nightcap preserves some amount of AoE control but decimates any careless zombie.
I agree with removing the pull of Casting Shadow. Maybe it could introduce friendly fire?
Acorn/Oak:
Oak is a bit overpowered in BfN, but with all mechanic changes regarding sprint, damage drop off and overhealth, he might actually require the Treetop Riders. Imp's mech has decent damage to stay alive, but Oak by himself is too slow and in need of some armor.
Snapdragon:
Swoop Slam is weird in terms of damage and I would rather have it as mostly a mobility option with guaranteed knockback.
As for elements.. well, that's one of the reasons I want a hybrid system - so there would be more candidates for characters. I guees we need to make a research on types of dragons and possible variants for Snapdragon
Iceberg Lettuce:
Judging by the model and general character, I would say that she is an elemental and for base we could have something like Arcane Lettuce. I would really love to see her in the game)
July 2021