Re: Let's Watch: Live from Neighborville Episode #3

by RockScorpion384
Reply

Original Post

Re: Let's Watch: Live from Neighborville Episode #3

★★★★ Guide
@spIash_damage

Youre failing to mention:

1. Solo oak is better than solo station as ive already mentioned. The fact that its better to run multiple oaks rather than a single oak with multiple acorns should tell you that oak by himself is too good. In comparison a full space station is godlike but a solo one is ez kill, just like how a multi-player class should be. Weak when solo, strong when together.

2. Mechs are apart of another class which shouldnt impede on the balance of other classes. If sunflower+Peashooter was a really strong synergy, for example, they wouldnt just nerf the sunflowers healing rate to fix it. That would make sunflower overall worse. Sure they could make specific changes to that pairing like not bein able to heal pea gatling but that doesnt effect her power level with anyone else. You cant just balance characters because of their potential with certain other characters. Otherwise without those certain characters they would be useless.

3. Mechs are an ability that can be used every 2 minutes for 20-30 seconds before going on cd again. While station and oak have no cd’s. So you cant compare oak/station to mech in the first place

4. Plants dont have a mech sure, but they also have classes that the zombies dont have. Zombies dont get a stealth hero for example 🤷🏼‍♂️

Only people complaining about oak nerfs are the oak exploiters exactly like the nightcap players.
Message 21 of 40 (576 Views)

Re: Let's Watch: Live from Neighborville Episode #3

[ Edited ]
Champion (Retired)

@Iron_Guard8 My bad - I didn't see you mention the Space Station needing it too, but I was referring to the plants team having 2 players with massive health.  Not necessarily the Oak v Space Station.  Hope that makes sense.

 

EDIT: typo

Message 22 of 40 (577 Views)

Re: Let's Watch: Live from Neighborville Episode #3

★★★★ Guide
@Iron_Guard8 Station isnt broken tho 🤦🏻‍♂️ Oak is. Thats the difference
Message 23 of 40 (573 Views)

Re: Let's Watch: Live from Neighborville Episode #3

Champion (Retired)

@RockScorpion384 wrote:
@spIash_damage

Youre failing to mention:

1. Solo oak is better than solo station as ive already mentioned. The fact that its better to run multiple oaks rather than a single oak with multiple acorns should tell you that oak by himself is too good. In comparison a full space station is godlike but a solo one is ez kill, just like how a multi-player class should be. Weak when solo, strong when together.

2. Mechs are apart of another class which shouldnt impede on the balance of other classes. If sunflower+Peashooter was a really strong synergy, for example, they wouldnt just nerf the sunflowers healing rate to fix it. That would make sunflower overall worse. Sure they could make specific changes to that pairing like not bein able to heal pea gatling but that doesnt effect her power level with anyone else. You cant just balance characters because of their potential with certain other characters. Otherwise without those certain characters they would be useless.

3. Mechs are an ability that can be used every 2 minutes for 20-30 seconds before going on cd again. While station and oak have no cd’s. So you cant compare oak/station to mech in the first place

4. Plants dont have a mech sure, but they also have classes that the zombies dont have. Zombies dont get a stealth hero for example 🤷🏼‍♂️

Only people complaining about oak nerfs are the oak exploiters exactly like the nightcap players.

So you're insinuating I'm complaining?

https://answers.ea.com/t5/General-Discussion/Buffs-Before-Nerfs/td-p/8187603/

I've thought (over a week now with even @Iron_Guard8 agreeing in that thread) buffs should be applied before nerfs altogether.

I try to give constructive input and not complain.


Are you on PS4?  I'd love to game with you sometime.

Message 24 of 40 (570 Views)

Re: Let's Watch: Live from Neighborville Episode #3

★★★★ Guide
@spIash_damage The zombies dont have 2 classes with massive health lol.

Space station has 275hp while oak has 300hp, 25hp less than base oak. if you use the upgrade, oak can even go up to 350hp while space station has no health upgrade so is stuck at 275. Let us not forget that oak gets 2 damaging abilities while station only has the cratermaker while her other ability literally just reduces the cooldown of cratermaker 🤦🏻‍♂️

Also since you think classes impact the balance of others lets not forget sunflower shall we. Who when has a faster healing rate than scientist, can pocket oaks and has the upgrade to increase how much overheal she can do, something zombies dont get. So really oaks can be walking round with almost 500 hp while station cant even reach 400 hp 👌

While imp gets his mech every 2 minutes for 30 seconds. Wow 😎🙄
Message 25 of 40 (555 Views)

Re: Let's Watch: Live from Neighborville Episode #3

Champion (Retired)

@RockScorpion384 just breathe, man.  It's okay to disagree.  

I've already stated a million times that buffs should come before nerfs and that's my constructive perspective.  I have a thread about this very subject that I just linked in my previous post.

You just said I'm a complaining exploiter and I think you'd change your mind, if you gamed with me.  I'm happy to play any character anytime.


Sooooo are you on PS4?  I'd love to play a few rounds.  No reason to clog up this thread with senseless banter.

 

=]

Message 26 of 40 (550 Views)

Re: Let's Watch: Live from Neighborville Episode #3

[ Edited ]
★★★★ Guide

@spIash_damageBuffs ARE being applied first the only 2 nerfs are for the extreme outlier classes that are clearly broken and wouldnt matter how many buffs you did to others, they would still be broken.

Oak doesnt fulfill his role as a multi-player class as he is so strong by himself theres no point. Buffing other characters wont weaken this fact. Sure a damage increase to others make oak easier/faster to kill but it doesnt solve the issue in that its always better to solo oak than jump into an oak as acorn.

As for nightcap, you could make every zombies 1 shot her and it wouldnt fix her problems. Fung fu is too much damage for so little skill. It doesnt matter what buffs you do fung fu would still be broken. Unless you buffed every zombie to 500hp so they dont instantly die thats the only solution that would make her balanced. It needed to be toned down no matter what buffs they did.

 

Also i never said u were a exploiter, i said all the people mad that these nerfs are happening are. Xbox 😔 

Message 27 of 40 (547 Views)

Re: Let's Watch: Live from Neighborville Episode #3

[ Edited ]
★★★★★ Expert

@RockScorpion384 wrote:
@Iron_Guard8Station isnt broken tho 🤦🏻‍♂️ Oak is. Thats the difference

Have you played with and against both? I was in a 4 cadet station that with overheal had over 700 health, plus the 3 extra cadets give shields and so on. They can vary in many ways to make them distinct and to balance them out, and I do see a lot more solo Oaks than solo Stations, but they both present problems in PvP and we use them heavily against some of the harder PvE stuff because they're both so good.

 

So while I do see Oak being used far more in solo fashion (and that big sap trap is far too good as you can detonate it far too quickly), they both need a look.

Message 28 of 40 (513 Views)

Re: Let's Watch: Live from Neighborville Episode #3

★★★★★ Expert

@spIash_damage  Indeed I agree with buffs over nerfs. However, as someone who works with other local amateur board game designers, both to test my own designs and theirs, the goal of balance is to find the baseline and then adjust everyone up or down to that level. If you have a game like Cthulhu Wars with asymmetrical factions, and one faction wins 66% of their games, one wins 34% of their games, and one wins 52% of their games, and the target is 50%, the first one is too good and needs to be brought down, the second is too low and needs to be brought up, the third, being only 2% of the desired target stays where it is. The people that loved the first faction may be unhappy with the changes to bring them in line, but it's for the overall good of the game.

 

I wanted to note to that often when Paladins (and I think Overwatch did this too, but they've added 3 characters since I played), new champions are often OP and then are brought down later as they want people to play them, and if they're weak, people generally won't so there's no data on their performance. Occasionally they miss that marker and need to buff instead, and often after nerfing they have to buff back up a little, but that's the general pattern.

 

Now I don't know what the baseline is here, I'm guessing that Peashooter is pretty close, but I'm not PopCap so can't say and my data is all anecdotal, but for the sake of argument, let's say the Peashooter is at the optimal balance point and everyone else needs to be near that point. If we give Peashooter a value of 5, we need everyone else to be, say 4.8-5.2 as that would be a good target range to go with. We want everything to be at 5.0 in this case, but that's really hard to do when characters are so different.

Message 29 of 40 (504 Views)

Re: Let's Watch: Live from Neighborville Episode #3

★★ Guide

The prize map looks awesome, can't wait to start progressing on that.

 

Very excited for the new PvE area as well, bit bittersweet though as looks to be the last one, hopefully we get more in the future one day.

Message 30 of 40 (475 Views)