Do you know what a cheaters, or companies, intent is?

by EvoCyberNation
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Original Post

Do you know what a cheaters, or companies, intent is?

★ Guide

Do you know what a cheaters, or companies, intent is?  TO RUIN ALL GAMES AT ALL COSTS.  These cheaters, or companies, want other gaming companies to fail.  They want every game to fail.  Unfortunately, and sorry for certain areas, but we all know where most of these cheating companies are coming from!  Every game is plagued by cheaters because the only thing they care about is greed and destruction.  The less you play a game in which you enjoy, the greater chances of that gaming company failing increases.  The only thing cheaters, or companies, care about is self interests at all cost.  As odd as this sounds, fight back by playing the games you enjoy no matter what!  Screw the cheaters, or other companies!

When you support a gaming company, that gaming company has a greater chance of fighting off the cheaters!  I, personally, would REALLY like to see all of these gaming companies join together to fight off cheaters and hackers.  Yet, I wouldn't be shocked that the larger gaming companies are putting down money, to purchase cheaters and hackers, to ruin other gaming companies...  If this is true, WTH are you doing?!  That's another gaming company losing revenue because of stupidity and greed!  Work together and make revenue.  If a gaming company fails due to the inability of them fix bugs, releasing new content, etc., that's on them!  Don't f*** up another gaming company because you want them gone at all costs.  I seriously think all of these gaming companies should be constantly monitored, as well as the cheaters and hackers.

 



If you haven't worked for the government, smaller businesses, or a large businesses, you really don't know what companies will do in order to overcome smaller and weaker companies.  It's a horrific world out there, and if you haven't seen it first hand...  You will be sickened by it!  Literally, companies will intentionally do things to ruin any company that faces them at ALL costs.  Literally!  Look at the gas prices...  Have you noticed the gas prices going up?  Why is that?  The larger companies literally destroyed the smaller companies by dropping the gas prices down sooo low that the smaller companies couldn't survive!  Now the larger gas companies are jacking up their gas prices because they have very little competition facing them!  Now you, the people, are suffering due to stupidity and greed of these larger gas companies.

 



Final Statement:  At what costs do you think other cheaters, or gaming companies, would go in order to take down their competitors?  Think about it, and while you're doing it, look at the big picture!

Message 1 of 11 (568 Views)

Re: Do you know what a cheaters, or companies, intent is?

★★★★ Guide

the company does it for the money. the player does it for obvious and obscure reasons 

Message 2 of 11 (543 Views)

Re: Do you know what a cheaters, or companies, intent is?

★★★★ Guide

from what I understand some of these cheat companies are very successful. it's a group of talented people. it's tragic that talent goes towards ruining a game rather than making it awesome for all. 

Message 3 of 11 (541 Views)

Re: Do you know what a cheaters, or companies, intent is?

★★★ Guide

Well, I am sure it feels awesome to ruin things.

Message 4 of 11 (535 Views)

Re: Do you know what a cheaters, or companies, intent is?

★★ Guide

how do we hire anonymous to make us a good anticheat against theese giants?

Message 5 of 11 (520 Views)

Re: Do you know what a cheaters, or companies, intent is?

★ Guide

Btw, this post is just talking about the issues we face as gamers.  I'm not going against, nor defending, Apex Legends.  Cheaters, and gaming companies, are willing to do anything to flush out their gaming competitors.  Gaming companies have been known to hire people to create cheats, then they use those cheats against other gaming competitors.  This is just another way that cheaters, and/or gaming companies, will go to destroy their competitors.

Have a good day gentlemen and ladies! High five It's a crooked world we live in! Devil We have to fight back as gamers! Large smile That's all I'm saying. Thumbs up

If you don't believe me about these issues, please do some research.

Message 6 of 11 (478 Views)

Re: Do you know what a cheaters, or companies, intent is?

★★ Guide

The main thing to understand here is how anti-cheat works. When you understand this, it becomes clear how cheating is impossible to get rid of.

Anti cheat works in 3 main ways.

1. Signature detection - The detect of certain patterns of bytes in memory, checked against a database

2. Heuristic analysis - Behavior and stat analysis (is this player suddenly winning every game with 10/1 KD, all headshots etc)

3. User reports


1. Signature detection

This is the primary method in which anti cheat functions and cheats are detected. And its the main reason why cheating is is prevalent and can't be stopped. This works very similar to anti-virus. Let me explain a typical cycle.

  1. Hack is developed

  2. Cheater is detected

  3. If available, the hack signature is entered into a database

  4. Now this signature is entered into this database and is always being checked for

This is almost exactly how anti virus works. The virus is let out into the world, its eventually detected. The rouge code is contained, analyzed and entered into a database. When this signature is detected, the anti virus software quarantines that file. The cycle continues.

But here is where things fall down for anti-cheat, specifically step #3. Lets assume a cheater is caught and banned - great, but how is it possible to stop other people from using the same cheat? Well, anti cheat needs to have the signature of the cheat (exactly how antivirus is working). But think about how incredibly difficult that information is to get, its not like they have the 'file' just sitting there.

One of the only ways to actually get the signature is from a memory dump from that users computer, good luck getting that! Even then with that dump, its incredibly challenging to sort thru and actually get a signature. You need to be qualified and know your stuff. Not only that, but even after expelling a ton of resources to fish out a signature and enter into a database, its incredibly easy to modify the code and create another variant of the cheat (junk code, function changes, etc) that masks the signature into a new one.

This is an uphill battle and frankly cannot be solved.

Okay, so lets spitball here for a bit and think of some other ways anti cheat can get signatures. Well, for one, they could just scour the web and download any public cheats they can find off sketchy Russian/Chinese sites and ban those signatures -- cool, this gets rid of bunch cheating script kiddies and other people who cant code, probably ~80-90% of cheats out there, but the real problem still exists. This is a band-aid solution.


Private cheats

This is why its impossible to ever stop cheating. Private cheats. If I create a 100% homebrew cheat (meaning all custom code, no copy-paste, not borrowed function libs or dlls), its 100% impossible for anti cheat to detect me using signature analysis alone. By creating a 100% unique signature, the cheat has effectively circumvented anti cheat's primary method of cheat detection. Methods #2 and #3 are the only other ways now, which I will get into. However, this is the primary evidence that suggests cheating is an unsolvable problem. You can cut out 80-90% of the people who aren't developers, but the remaining people exist in a sort of bubble outside any actual way of getting caught.

Careful cheaters cannot be detected and essentially exist above the rules.


2. Heuristic analysis

This stuff can get pretty complicated, but its a simple concept. This is behavioral and statistical analysis. Lets say you're the average player. You've set a baseline of your performance. Sometimes you have excellent games and spike above that baseline, great, that's normal. You can also improve as a player and over time improve your baseline, that is also normal. You can also totally suck a bunch of games in a row because you let your little cousin player and lower your baseline. That is also normal. Whats not normal is suddenly winning all your games, getting insane KDR, super long range kills, etc.

This is what, in a nutshell, heuristics analysis is. Of course this is very straight forward stat analysis, and anti-cheat is clever and actually go into some insane tracking and analysis that I cant even wrap my mind around (very advance statistics and mathematics). They also track things like how your mouse is moving (they can detect macros, such as AHK) and can determine if you're using aimlock by tracking how you're moving your mouse (example, its unnatural to move your mouse X distance in repeating increments, like a program would do it). There's a whole other plethora of things that make the system pretty insane.

The downside to this is that its waiting for a cheater to make a mistake. A careful cheater who understands this wont trigger these flags. They'll slowly raise their baseline as expected, and wont make big jumps in their game play. They make sure to lose a few games here and there, sprinkle some wins, and overall "game" the system. People do this.


3. User reports

This is pretty straightforward and there isn't a whole lot to say about this... overall though, a careful cheater won't spark anyone's attention.


The conclusion that can be drawn is that cheating is here to stay. The primary means of detection can be circumvented by custom/homebrew cheats, and a careful cheater wont trigger any flags. Cheating and hacks aren't going anywhere - most likely forever there exists games to cheat on.

Message 7 of 11 (463 Views)

Re: Do you know what a cheaters, or companies, intent is?

★★★★ Apprentice

Plenty of the cheaters aren't just ruining the game for fun, they're just trying to have some fun themselves as casual players.  What else can they do in a game without SBMM?

Message 8 of 11 (457 Views)

Re: Do you know what a cheaters, or companies, intent is?

★ Guide

Lately i feel like they aren't even working on the game... I expected alot of fixes when Season 1 came out, but it brought more issues... I also met alot of cheaters today and we still don't have the fps cap fix... I want to have patience with this game but it's slowly starting to drop...

Message 9 of 11 (447 Views)

Re: Do you know what a cheaters, or companies, intent is?

★★★ Guide

@Jungle-Beard wrote:

The main thing to understand here is how anti-cheat works. When you understand this, it becomes clear how cheating is impossible to get rid of.

Anti cheat works in 3 main ways.

1. Signature detection - The detect of certain patterns of bytes in memory, checked against a database

2. Heuristic analysis - Behavior and stat analysis (is this player suddenly winning every game with 10/1 KD, all headshots etc)

3. User reports


1. Signature detection

This is the primary method in which anti cheat functions and cheats are detected. And its the main reason why cheating is is prevalent and can't be stopped. This works very similar to anti-virus. Let me explain a typical cycle.

  1. Hack is developed

  2. Cheater is detected

  3. If available, the hack signature is entered into a database

  4. Now this signature is entered into this database and is always being checked for

This is almost exactly how anti virus works. The virus is let out into the world, its eventually detected. The rouge code is contained, analyzed and entered into a database. When this signature is detected, the anti virus software quarantines that file. The cycle continues.

But here is where things fall down for anti-cheat, specifically step #3. Lets assume a cheater is caught and banned - great, but how is it possible to stop other people from using the same cheat? Well, anti cheat needs to have the signature of the cheat (exactly how antivirus is working). But think about how incredibly difficult that information is to get, its not like they have the 'file' just sitting there.

One of the only ways to actually get the signature is from a memory dump from that users computer, good luck getting that! Even then with that dump, its incredibly challenging to sort thru and actually get a signature. You need to be qualified and know your stuff. Not only that, but even after expelling a ton of resources to fish out a signature and enter into a database, its incredibly easy to modify the code and create another variant of the cheat (junk code, function changes, etc) that masks the signature into a new one.

This is an uphill battle and frankly cannot be solved.

Okay, so lets spitball here for a bit and think of some other ways anti cheat can get signatures. Well, for one, they could just scour the web and download any public cheats they can find off sketchy Russian/Chinese sites and ban those signatures -- cool, this gets rid of bunch cheating script kiddies and other people who cant code, probably ~80-90% of cheats out there, but the real problem still exists. This is a band-aid solution.


Private cheats

This is why its impossible to ever stop cheating. Private cheats. If I create a 100% homebrew cheat (meaning all custom code, no copy-paste, not borrowed function libs or dlls), its 100% impossible for anti cheat to detect me using signature analysis alone. By creating a 100% unique signature, the cheat has effectively circumvented anti cheat's primary method of cheat detection. Methods #2 and #3 are the only other ways now, which I will get into. However, this is the primary evidence that suggests cheating is an unsolvable problem. You can cut out 80-90% of the people who aren't developers, but the remaining people exist in a sort of bubble outside any actual way of getting caught.

Careful cheaters cannot be detected and essentially exist above the rules.


2. Heuristic analysis

This stuff can get pretty complicated, but its a simple concept. This is behavioral and statistical analysis. Lets say you're the average player. You've set a baseline of your performance. Sometimes you have excellent games and spike above that baseline, great, that's normal. You can also improve as a player and over time improve your baseline, that is also normal. You can also totally suck a bunch of games in a row because you let your little cousin player and lower your baseline. That is also normal. Whats not normal is suddenly winning all your games, getting insane KDR, super long range kills, etc.

This is what, in a nutshell, heuristics analysis is. Of course this is very straight forward stat analysis, and anti-cheat is clever and actually go into some insane tracking and analysis that I cant even wrap my mind around (very advance statistics and mathematics). They also track things like how your mouse is moving (they can detect macros, such as AHK) and can determine if you're using aimlock by tracking how you're moving your mouse (example, its unnatural to move your mouse X distance in repeating increments, like a program would do it). There's a whole other plethora of things that make the system pretty insane.

The downside to this is that its waiting for a cheater to make a mistake. A careful cheater who understands this wont trigger these flags. They'll slowly raise their baseline as expected, and wont make big jumps in their game play. They make sure to lose a few games here and there, sprinkle some wins, and overall "game" the system. People do this.


3. User reports

This is pretty straightforward and there isn't a whole lot to say about this... overall though, a careful cheater won't spark anyone's attention.


The conclusion that can be drawn is that cheating is here to stay. The primary means of detection can be circumvented by custom/homebrew cheats, and a careful cheater wont trigger any flags. Cheating and hacks aren't going anywhere - most likely forever there exists games to cheat on.


And that's why we need all 3 methods together to keep the amount of cheaters at a minimum.

Rainbow6:Siege uses all 3 after they took a huge hit in year one because massive amount of cheaters.

Now they have Battleeye, Fairfight and User-Reports which is the most effective thing they can do (wont catch all, but most of them). If they would additional sue every caught cheater it would even be less, but they still care about their reputation (remember the shitstorm against Epic for sueing a 14yo old)

Message 10 of 11 (429 Views)