Help us improve Answers HQ! Take Survey No, Thanks

Re: Anthem Needs To Learn From FFXIV And Tear It All Down

by Alvanian
Reply

Original Post

Re: Anthem Needs To Learn From FFXIV And Tear It All Down

Champion

@Silversurferguy wrote:

@cake404  Once retail acquires the products, it’s on them to sell it. It doesn’t help if the product is terrible. You say it’s leftover stock, but really they’re just getting more desperate to get rid of it. How else can you explain a case like fallout 76 or any other game that flopped at launch? Meanwhile on the digital market, anthem is still being sold at full price. It could take YEARS for anthem to drop in price even when people know it’s not worth it. This game doesn’t have that long of a life span to begin with. Btw, there’s still a considerable market for physical copies. Collectors in particular pay top dollar for them. Then there’s the people who want to stick it to companies like EA and pay as little as possible for their garbage who’d rather buy a discounted used copy rather than full price to avoid feeling scammed. 


So which is it? Collectors paying top dollar for them, or people buying discounted copies to stick it to The Man? You’re not sticking it to EA by buying discounted copies at Best Buy, by the way. And if the digital versions still sell at full price, then there is no logic whatsoever in trying to blame EA for what Amazon is doing.

 

They’re not discounted because they’re used, by the way. They’re discounted because they’re physical copies and physically take up space in their inventory. You can’t really resell used license keys, last I checked. The thing with selling physical copies is, there is almost always some leftover inventory, because it’s impossible to predict exactly how many copies will be sold. If you have too much stock, you end up with excess stock and having to sell it at a discount to clear the shelves, but that’s typically preferable to not having enough stock, because then you take opportunity losses and make your customers look to other stores for what they want. And since retailers tend to get those copies at bulk discounts in the first place, they could sell some at a discount and still come out ahead. 

 

As to why people aren’t buying physical copies, it’s your speculation versus mine. You say it’s because the game is “garbage.” I say it could be because more people are realizing that “owning” a physical copy is more of a hassle than an advantage.

 

And again, by paying “as little as possible” you’re only scamming yourself in the end. You give them less money, they are forced to react by reducing their budgets to save costs. Then you get upset that new games don’t seem to have as much content as the games you vaguely remember playing as a kid, and try to give them even less money. Eventually the series, or even the entire studio, gets put on ice when there isn’t sufficient revenue to keep them afloat, and people go “why would EA do that, those monsters!”

 

If you want better games, you should try giving them more money and better feedback. It’s strange to expect Bioware to keep investing heavily into trying to satisfy you if you make it seem like an impossible task with no ROI to show for it.



Heroes and Champions are community members recognized for being helpful, constructive, and positive. More info here.

We don’t work for EA. Our opinions are our own.
Message 31 of 66 (207 Views)

Re: Anthem Needs To Learn From FFXIV And Tear It All Down

★★ Guide

@cake404  Your logic is so backwards mate. Games don’t improve the more money you hurl at them. Just look at FIFA and it’s ultimate teams. You really think it’s getting better? It’s under scrutiny for its terrible and predatory business practices despite it generating nearly a billion dollars in revenue. Good games earn the gamer’s money not the other way around. I don’t understand when you say I’d scam myself by spending as little as possible. I’d be saving myself $60 (since I spent $80 originally). 

Message 32 of 66 (193 Views)

Re: Anthem Needs To Learn From FFXIV And Tear It All Down

Champion

I have no idea if FIFA is getting better or worse, I’ve never played it. Sports games are their own thing though. I never understood why people buy them, or why people spend so much money on sports-related stuff in general.

 

But FIFA is an entirely different genre and it’s not made by Bioware, so I don’t see how it’s really relevant to the discussion about Anthem. You can’t make FIFA much better since there isn’t much to make better. They’re not going to add more story content or new maps or weapons or bosses to FIFA, no matter how much money you throw at it, because it’s a soccer sim and is never going to be anything else.

 

With Anthem, on the other hand, all of those things are expected, and all of those things cost significant amounts of money to produce. Paying as little as possible for the games that are actually expensive to develop isn’t going to “teach them” to make better games. It’s going to teach them that those games are not worth the risk of investment, which will eventually result in them not making those kinds of games anymore.

 

That’s what I mean by you scamming yourself. You think you’re pushing then to make games better, but what you’re actually doing is pushing them to not make quality games at all. You won’t bankrupt EA by snatching a copy of Anthem from Amazon on discount, and you won’t bankrupt Amazon either. But you’ll cheat yourself out of having quality games to play in the future, because the publishers will take note of what happened to Bioware and will stick to the safe and highly profitable game like FIFA and such.



Heroes and Champions are community members recognized for being helpful, constructive, and positive. More info here.

We don’t work for EA. Our opinions are our own.
Message 33 of 66 (183 Views)

Re: Anthem Needs To Learn From FFXIV And Tear It All Down

★★ Guide

@cake404  No, you’re saying games get better the more people spend. By your logic, games like FIFA should be improving regardless of the genre or who it’s made by. That’s so wrong. You don’t buy a game only to spend more and more money hoping for it to get better, it needs to be good from the start to justify the selling price. I paid $80 expecting a full game. It didn’t matter if I spent 60, 80, or 120 dollars. The game was, and still is, broken, flawed, devoid of content, and repetitive. There’s always something wrong or missing.  Had I known what this was going to be like I would’ve spent far less cuz this game isn’t worth the money I put in just to play it. Nor does it deserve any more money from micro transactions IMO. The only scam is paying full price for this. You’re a real champion for EA...

Message 34 of 66 (174 Views)

Re: Anthem Needs To Learn From FFXIV And Tear It All Down

[ Edited ]
Champion

Again, comparing Anthem to FIFA is apples and oranges. FIFA is in the simulator genre, where the whole point is to model something from real life. There is only so much you can do to make a simulator better, since by definition it can’t have new content that deviates too much from reality, or it wouldn’t be much of a sim anymore.

 

FIFA is also a series, where they release a new game literally every year. I imagine they improve iteratively over time, and the latest FIFA game is probably better than the one from ten years ago, but there isn’t much point in putting a ton of effort into improving FIFA 19 instead of putting those improvements into FIFA 2020 (or whatever it’s going to be called).

 

Anthem is a game where they have actually said they want to keep improving the same game and adding content to it for years – including content that’s expensive to produce, like story with motion captured cutscenes and fully voiced dialogue. They also stated they didn’t want to charge people for access to that future content, so that if you purchased the full game you will also have access to all content that ever gets released, even if you don’t put any more money into it. They also restricted themselves to only selling cosmetic content through MTX, so no lootboxes or anything that gives you a gameplay advantage can be bought for real money. You can’t even buy crafting materials with shards. You also can, at least hypothetically, buy all cosmetics in the game with in-game currency, except for the LoD stuff and a handful of Origin Access decals.

 

They tried to do all they could to make a long-running game with a healthy long-term monetization strategy to finance further development. They have added improvements based on player feedback, and are working on adding more content (Cataclysm, and Act 2 after that, from what I understand), as well as fixes and performance improvements down the road. But they won’t finance years and years of development just from the initial sales. Especially if people specifically go out of their way to try and buy the game as cheaply as possible to “stick it to EA” or whatever. And if this game fails financially, it makes it that much less likely they will try to make another game like this again. By which I don’t mean they’ll somehow make a better game with more content with less money next time. More likely they’ll just stop making these kinds of games at all if DA4 fails as well.

 

I’m not a “champion of EA.” I’m just pointing out some common sense facts, like “AAA games cost lots of money to develop.” Some games are more ambitious than others. EA is a publisher in a high-risk industry, so naturally they want to make as much money as possible, to offset any potential losses. Call it “greed” if you want, but as long as we are operating under capitalism and exchanging money for goods and services, that’s the only way for any business to operate, because having more money never hurts, but having no money kills you. They have a “portfolio” of games. Some are riskier than others. If they were really just greedy, they could have just stuck to their sports titles like FIFA, Madden, and whatever else their sports division is releasing. But they’re also taking risks by investing some of that money into titles that are expensive to make and not that profitable in comparison. They don’t have to do that, strictly speaking, but they do.

 

However, as a for-profit, publicly traded company they can’t just keep putting money into a title if it isn’t profitable, no matter how much extra money they may be making off of FIFA. Every studio that’s part of EA needs to be showing they’re making profits, as a studio, on whatever money has been invested into them. Being part of EA just means the results might be less catastrophic for the employees if the studio goes under. It’s not a big slush fund where everyone can just take as much as they want. So if you want a specific studio to do better, money works better than threats to give them less money in the future. Again, just common sense things that aren’t all that commonly known or understood, apparently.



Heroes and Champions are community members recognized for being helpful, constructive, and positive. More info here.

We don’t work for EA. Our opinions are our own.
Message 35 of 66 (129 Views)

Re: Anthem Needs To Learn From FFXIV And Tear It All Down

★★ Guide

@cake404  I’m not making any comparison between anthem and FIFA. I’m simply applying your logic of spending more money on a game to make it better. I pointed at FIFA as an example of why your way of thinking doesn’t work. 

 

As for updates and free content, that was their decision. They could’ve released paid expansions to offset the costs but they didn’t. I’ll bet if it was paid DLC, EA would be on top of BioWare with all the staff and resources at their disposal. Maybe that way we wouldn’t be 5 months in with no major updates. They made their bed and now they have to sleep in it. 

 

Maybe your onto something about not making games like anthem anymore. Perhaps BioWare shouldn’t try to make looter shooter in the future and just stick to what they do best: story driven games. BioWare took no lessons from other games in the genre; so they couldn’t have known what to do or what not to do in looter shooters. Maybe they should just sell the IP to a better studio. Bungie’s had experience with destiny. 2k and Gearbox are perhaps the best in this field thanks to borderlands. Maybe even Digital Extremes can take a whack at it since they’ve done pretty well, and are still thriving, with warframe. I’ll bet they can make a far better anthem if they ever had the chance.

Message 36 of 66 (122 Views)

Re: Anthem Needs To Learn From FFXIV And Tear It All Down

[ Edited ]
Champion

The logic of spending more money to make a game better obviously isn’t going to work on a game that’s already about as good as it’s going to get. Spending a million dollars on a Tetris game would still give you Tetris. Anthem is different because it was always meant to be developed and improved based on player feedback.

 

It was their decision to make future updates free because in the past people have complained about getting charged for additional story content. So they decided not to do that. Likewise, players complained about lootboxes and other ways of gaining gameplay advantage with real money, so they decided not to do that either. They took a risk and gave the players just about everything the players have been claiming to want, presumably hoping that the players would appreciate it.

 

But no, players like you are now saying it’s their fault for listening to the players and taking their suggestions seriously. I guess they should have just kept nickel and diming people for content, because it seems the only way most people are ever going to pay for anything is if they have absolutely no choice, and then they will complain about it for months after the fact.

 

And I’m still not sure why everybody thinks that Anthem is a “looter shooter.” Or rather, why everyone thinks that “looter shooter” is its own entire genre and Anthem got it “wrong.” To me, a “looter shooters” seems like one of those minimalist low-effort game concepts where you just throw in some assets and bare bones game mechanics and put items behind grind walls to artificially extend play time. Anthem is a story-driven game that happened to include randomized item rolls, and now everyone is complaining it’s not a “proper looter shooter” – while simultaneously complaining that it’s repetitive and lacking content. Being repetitive and lacking content is literally the recipe of making a looter shooter. It’s the PvE equivalent of a PvP-only game.

 

Again, for Bioware to make story-driven games they need to find a way to get people to pay for them – without playing through the story in a week and then refunding the game just because they can. And content keeps getting more expensive to make because the quality standards get higher with every passing year. What passed for AAA a few years ago would be considered at best “retro charm” quality nowadays, only acceptable from indie developers at this point. Yet people expect getting better and better games for the same amount of money, and act like they’re doing developers a favor by even paying that much at all. It’s like wanting things to get done well, cheap, and fast when paying just enough to get them done at all, and threatening to take back even that.

 

You may get your wish in that they might not make games like Anthem again, but that doesn’t mean they’ll “go back” to making the games you expect them to make unless a) some billionaire decides to personally finance their development out of own pockets or b) players show they are willing to put their money where their mouth is. You can’t pay bills with “our client really wanted us to make this.”



Heroes and Champions are community members recognized for being helpful, constructive, and positive. More info here.

We don’t work for EA. Our opinions are our own.
Message 37 of 66 (114 Views)

Re: Anthem Needs To Learn From FFXIV And Tear It All Down

★★ Guide

@cake404  If you do DLC correctly, people don’t complain. But there’s a difference between offering a good deal and ripping them off. And you see, people have been giving their feedback but nothing’s changed; and it’s been almost 5 months. Loot system still sucks. In fact, they unintentionally fixed it but patched it twice. Feedback was everyone begging them not to patch it, but they did it anyway. You call that development based on feedback? Get outta here with that. 

 

If you wonder why why people call it a looter shooter, it’s because it plays like one. A bad one. But a looter shooter nonetheless. Ironically, your own description of looter shooters is spot on with anthem. How do you not see it? Lacking in content? Yes? Repetitive? Yes? Grind walls to pad the game time? YES! The tombs mission is a perfect example of this! Good grief! 

Message 38 of 66 (103 Views)

Re: Anthem Needs To Learn From FFXIV And Tear It All Down

[ Edited ]
Champion

I guess I’ve never seen a game that does DLC “correctly” because from what I’ve seen, people complain any time they have to pay for anything at all, including the base game itself. The mental gymnastics some people go through to justify not paying for something are ridiculous. I’ve seen somebody say that $10 for a DLC is too much after getting the game on sale for $5 because “I’m not paying more for the DLC than I paid for the game itself.”

 

They have implemented quite a few changes based on feedback. They are implementing further changes to the loot system in Cataclysm, if I understand correctly. Simply increasing Lego drop rates was not a good idea and it was obvious to anyone who thought about it for more than two seconds. People were saying they wanted Legos because Masterworks dropped so often they felt like trash to them. Guess what would happen if Legos dropped at the same rate? It would keep people busy for a week at most, and then everyone would be right where they started. Except then you’d have even more problems because everyone would be farming GM3 and complaining it’s too easy.

 

And sure, I would have preferred to have more content in Anthem. Then again, I don’t think it’s possible to get to a point where I’d feel like I have “enough” content in a Bioware game. I would always want more. But I felt that there was a reasonable amount at launch, for the prologue of a game that intends to have additional content coming out for years. Honestly, I expected much less than the amount of content there was at launch.

 

And no, it doesn’t play like a looter shooter to me. Maybe it’s because I don’t play it like a looter shooter. To me it’s a story-oriented game with the option to also jump in and do some multiplayer in the same world every once in a while. I play it to have fun and try new things, not to grind for the gear with the highest stats and best inscriptions so I can make the game even easier. Granted, I also don’t have as many hours in the game as some other people. I imagine if I had thousands of hours in it by now I’d probably be sick of it by this point. But then again, if I played any game for that much in that amount of time I’d probably be sick of it regardless of how much content there was.

 

And no, I don’t recall the Tombs mission being particularly grindy. It was basically a tutorial on tracking and completing challenges. The biggest issue I remember having was that the multikill challenge was kinda hard to get without Storm or Colossus (which I unlocked last). But it was less of a grind issue and more of a “figure out how to make it happen” issue. And even then, it was doable. And it didn’t feel like a grind wall to me because it didn’t feel like I hit a wall. There were other missions (including the faction “side-story” missions), there were NPCs in the fort, there was the fort itself where there were new things to find all the time, and there was freeplay where I’m still finding things I haven’t seen before. Some of the later challenges (Champion of Tarsis, Legendary Freelancer) are kinda grindy, but they aren’t part of the story so it’s not like there’s any rush to get them as soon as possible.



Heroes and Champions are community members recognized for being helpful, constructive, and positive. More info here.

We don’t work for EA. Our opinions are our own.
Message 39 of 66 (80 Views)
Highlighted

Re: Anthem Needs To Learn From FFXIV And Tear It All Down

★★★★★ Apprentice
Garble Garble Garble

How is this still a discussion?
Message 40 of 66 (64 Views)

fifa-18-promo-circle

Having trouble connecting to your game?

Try these steps first to clear up any problems you may have when connecting to an EA game.

Troubleshoot and test your connection

all-ea-help-promo

Forget your EA Account ID or password?

Reset, update, or link your account information.

View More on EA Help