AI or Human Opponents - What's worst? [ Edited ]

[Anonymous]

I cannot remember if I have brought this up before, but having just returned from two games of Turf Takeover I find it inherently wrong and extremely frustrating (which is the reason I'm letting off steam) that a Garden or Graveyard can be taken over by a spawned bot.

In theory, you can launch a fleet of them and just sit back and wait for them to finish the job.  

Surely the whole point of the game is for the two teams to battle it out, and for the best team to progress purely on merit rather than on which team has the most damaging bots. I find it a misinterpretation of the whole concept of multiplaying.

On top of which, I find the Vases, Outhouses and the Coffins ridiculously strong, and I spend more time and (for the most part) have more difficulty in battling them than my human opponents. Same goes for Dark Flower who is probably one of the most devastating characters in the game. If anything needs nerfing, she should top the list.

[bobburgers6]

Dark Flower is annoying especially if a good flower player is running amuck with it (really devastating to imp players as it can auto-target them). Luckily if I playing allstar or soldier, I can use their abilities to quickly remove it (smokescreen and a dummy shield do wonders). Aim at the feet for the protected troops as they have lower health then their actual shield. Though the protection becomes problematic when enemies are charging with them as well.

[Anonymous]

Admittedly you can kill them off quicker when aiming at their feet, but the problem remains in that one still spends far too much time concentrating on them rather than on the attacking players (A fact which you allude to yourself). This means that apart from the bots contributing hugely to the takeover of say a garden by their mere presence - which I find completely unreasonable-, they also, as mentioned, deflect attention from the attacking players which surely defeats the object of a multiplayer game and is one of my pet beefs with this game. It is the main reason why I in Mixed Mode try and avoid playing TT - if I can - without letting the side down.

[dwooten77]

This is a tough one. As a plant I can’t count the amount of times I’ve solely had to take out AI because nobody cares to mess with them. They don’t “count”.
As a Zombie it is a strategy when you’re on a team that just doesn’t push. It’s unfortunate.

[Anonymous]

I see yr point. It's is a tough call. And to be frank, I am not completely innocent of their use, as I have lately found myself on TT teams where we were 2 or 3 players fewer than our opponents and where we have used the tougher ones as backup, as we wouldn't have stood much of a chance without them. Particularly when playing as Stuffy Flower with Dark Flower as sidekick gave me a distinct (and quite unfair) advantage.

I suppose one can also argue their use in such circumstances.

[Studman61]

I've never had a problem with the spawned AI in TT but that might be because I mostly play ops mode so I know how to deal with them and I also know the aggravation of a vase/coffin walking through everything . They aggro towards the last thing to damage them so you can use this to your advantage and lure them away though with armored spawns you have to hit them not their armor/shield. They also attack things by themselves so launching a fleet of them would result in them being more of helpers than game winners. You also have spawnable turrets, including a type specifically meant to break armor so its not like the AI is one sided even if people complain the turrets are useless they do their job as extras. As for them being against multiplayer, its up to human players to take advantage as well as deal with the spawned AI. Having one player deal with turrets/AI while the others deal with the opposing players is good teamwork.

[Iron_Guard8]

I like the extra dimension of the pots/bots and the mobile AI in TT, part of why it's my favorite mode but people need to not ignore the AI in these matches and like posted by others here, I swear there are times I'm the only one dealing with them. Some people love to spawn hordes of the tougher ones to swarm the point with hard to vanquish AI to take the points but that's just part of the game really.

You can also nail them in the eyes slits on the tough weeds and zombie walkers with certain classes. Kernal Corn for example, is quite good at taking them out by doing so. You can shoot the feet too but you can crit them by shooting between the eyes and that can take them down surprisingly fast.

[Screion]

There are really only 2 problems you encounter:

When the AI units are severely overpowered OR when one team is outnumbered.

A good example of broken AI are the Scaredy-shrooms with infinite ammo.And a good example of outnumbered teams is simply when you have 4+ players less while the enemy team camps, shoots through walls/floor while masses of AI units take the base no one can defend.

I still say AI utilization should be restricted when a team is outnumbered. But if a team in an even match cannot deal with AI units its their fault.

[Anonymous]

That's where we disagree because, despite even numbers of players, the game isn't even for the simple reason that you as a defender also have to defend yourself against bots who are just as proficient in taking over a Garden/Graveyard as a human opponent. In other words, I am defending myself against a mixed bunch of 12+ opponents. I don't find that reasonable.

As I wrote initially (though not in that many words), I look upon multiplaying as a match between two teams where the success of a team is measured in terms of who is best able to position themselves, know the strengths and weaknesses of the opposing characters, use the ability best suited to their particular role in the game and read the way the game is developing. I just don't see bots as being part of that. PopCap seems to see it a bit my way in that they don't have bots in Mixed Mode (barring Gnome Bomb) where they perfectly well could have been part of the games in that game mode.

The bots have undoubtedly been included to give variation to the game, but if one is to have these things then at least not make it possible for them to take over a Garden/Graveyard. I could live with that.

[Screion]

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@Anonymous wrote:

[...] the success of a team is measured in terms of who is best able to position themselves, know the strengths and weaknesses of the opposing characters, use the ability best suited to their particular role in the game [...]

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And this is exactly where the AI fits in. It is part of the plan and requires strategic thinking. It mean people have to deal with AI units and not only focus on other players. It means to deploy counter-measures. If a team cannot stop a couple AI units it is incompetent and deserves to lose. It is easy to distract AI units and stop them. 

If anything the AI units need to be made more effective at taking over bases simply to counter spawn camping and other awful things where no one cares about the actual objective.

I've been in plenty of games where a single doom shroom or an ice shroom ended the game. Because no one in the zombie team cared to take those out, so the few zombies with the intention to take the garden were in for a surprise. You would think after 3 or 4 people got rekt by those potted plants, someone would take care of those. But no. And that is when one team deserves to lose.

With all my experience i can tell you that AI units mostly fail and are free points. What you fear is only a very rare problem and sometimes even a solid strategy to crack the defenses. If you cannot stop AI units because you are under constant fire, its your teams fault for not providing you with cover. If its 12 versus you its your teams fault again. The AI units have very little impact on the flow of the match.