Re: There's no average female body hair pattern

by LisaG46
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Original Post

There's no average female body hair pattern

[ Edited ]
★★★ Pro

Note: When I write "female" or "male" in this post I'm solely talking about averages. I'm not talking about all women or all men unless I specifically state so in a specific case. When I say "female sim" or "male sim", on the other hand, I'm specifically referring to the genders (female and male rig) in the game, I'm not referring to averages or real people in any way in those cases. But, just "female" and just "male" will always refer to averages in humans.

Really, please remember that I talk about averages. Not all women, not all men.

Also, please don't read this post as angry. It's easy to think a text is filled with feelings that it's actually not filled with. I'm not angry, I'm just trying to describe a problem and being constructive about it.


I was very happy that we were going to get body hair in The Sims 4. But when we got it, it actually made me quite... not happy.

The thing is that when we look at the body hair in the game it feels like they made body hair with only men in mind, and then enabled the body hair for female sims as an afterthought. It feels like they forgot about half of the population.

This is actually sexist.

I'm not saying that they made it like this with any ill intent. People can have the best intent and it still ends up sexist. I'm sure that they had the best intent.

So, let me explain why this is sexist.

First off, this is what a female body hair pattern looks like:
FemaleBodyhair.png

Observe that this picture doesn't show how thick or long the body hair would be, it only shows where the body hair would be and roughly how far it reaches in each direction. I'm sorry that it doesn't look very good, I used Paint. And here's an alt text for those who need it: There's a strip of hair between the breasts. There's a strip of hair from the navel down to the underpants. There's hair on the outer side of the forearm. There's hair from right below the knees down to right above the ankles.

Just wanted to also mention that having hair on both between the breasts and on the tummy, or having hair only between the breasts, or having hair only on the tummy, are probably all similarly common.

This is what the base game body hair pattern looks like:
BasegameBodyhair.png

This is a male (still talking average, there are many women with this type of body hair pattern too, and it's natural, I'm just referring to average) body hair pattern. Female (still average, just want to make it super clear) body hair pattern doesn't go this high up on the legs, arms, tummy, and chest, and it isn't this wide and thick on the tummy and chest.

And this is what the body hair pattern with the least amount of hair (except for hairless, of course) looks like, which is in the High School Years expansion pack:
HSYBodyhair.png

The hair on the arms looks okay, just a tad bit too wavy (since females on average have thinner body hair than males on average, female arm hair usually lies a bit flatter and therefore looks more straight). But... Still too high on the legs. Still too high, wide and thick on the tummy. And no hair between the breasts at all (note again that a little strip of hair between the breasts and no hair between the breasts could probably both be considered average).

Also, this is the option that looks closest to female body hair pattern, not like actual average female body hair pattern, just the closest. And it's in a pack. So, not only isn't there an actual female body hair pattern, the only one that resemblances female body hair pattern the most is behind a paywall.

Male body hair pattern is in the base game. The somewhat female-looking body hair pattern is an extra that we have to pay for.

The two things I'm glad for with the body hair update is that body hair IS enabled to female sims (unlike in The Sims 3 where it was only enabled on female werewolves...), and that women who have more body hair than average (for example, but not exclusively, women with PCOS) can give their simselves a body hair pattern that looks similar to their real-life body hair pattern. Women who keep their body hair in general, and women with more body hair than average in particular, are often shunned, shamed, bullied, and otherwise disapproved of because of their body hair. I personally have far less hair than average on legs and arms, and a tiiiny bit more than average on tummy and between the breasts, I've even compared with friends. Even so, I have been told by medical doctors that I have an "androgenic" body hair pattern, when my body hair is around female average. I guess it's just that doctors don't see AFABs who don't remove their body hair very often. It's 12 years since I decided that I want to keep my body hair because I don't feel like I look "right" without it. And because I'm read as a woman people will stare, with horror or disgust in their eyes, at my legs if I wear shorts, and at my tummy or chest if I'm wearing beachwear. And this is in Sweden, which, according to studies, is supposed to be the fifth most equal country in the world. This is what it's like to live as a woman or to be perceived as a woman, if you don't remove your body hair. And to not even be able to add body hair that actually looks like average female body hair, to my sims, feels like the body hair was only made with men in mind.

So, please, Maxis, make a female body hair pattern, and put it in the base game. Do not put it in a pack. We shouldn't need to pay to get something that is a part of the average woman's life when we don't have to pay for something that is a part of the average man's life.

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Re: There's no average female body hair pattern

★★★ Expert

@Katrus91 I agree that it would be awesome to see this added to the base game, but I think for now your best bet might be to use CC. There are some very nice sets out there. A very lovely person on Discord sent me a link for a maxis match female body hair tattoo set that has the same pattern that you are describing. I tried it in my game and it looks great on my sims. I can't post a link here but you can find it if you do a search for Mooncatcher's Corner and PCOS Things. Send me a DM if you want a link.

 

I'm just a regular Sims player, I don't work for EA.

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Re: There's no average female body hair pattern

★★★ Pro

@RandomBuzziness I appreciate the sentiment, but I personally don't use CC (or mods for that matter). I did look up the CC you mentioned though (Moonchild btw, not Mooncatcher), out of curiosity, but there weren't many pictures, and the few pictures I saw didn't have the pattern I was describing in the thread-start (the CC description mentioned several patterns, I just couldn't find a picture of the one you mentioned).

Anyway, I don't think we should have to rely on CC or mods to make the game being able to represent a majority of women. It is sexist that the game can represent a majority of men, but not a majority of women, when it comes to something as natural as body hair, and I don't think The Sims should be sexist.

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Re: There's no average female body hair pattern

[ Edited ]
★★★ Expert

@Katrus91 Your choice to not use mods or cc is very understandable. Many simmers prefer to play that way. I agree with you 100% that I would love to see this added to the base game. I merely suggested the cc as an alternative.

 

For anyone else who might be interested in trying out this CC file:

 

The cc creator uses the names Moonchild or Moonchild Loves The Night, but their patreon is called Mooncatcher's Corner. The search terms I suggested (Mooncatchers Corner + PCOS) are the easiest way to find the file. The PCOS condition and accurately recreating it for Sims is very important to this creator. The pics on the download page do not show most of the patterns, but I downloaded it in my game and applied it to a sim in CAS. What I found is that they accurately recreated female body hair patterns from conditions like PCOS or idiopathic hyperandrogenism.

 

EDIT: I forgot to add, yes the download is free.

 

For anyone with any of those conditions who is reading this, you are perfect as you are. We all deserve acceptance and understanding. We are all worthy.

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Re: There's no average female body hair pattern

[ Edited ]
★★★ Guide

They made female werewolves use the male bodies as well.

 

So there's a lot of things that are defaulting to male, that should not be, when it comes to females.

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Re: There's no average female body hair pattern

★★ Novice
I wish they had a more traditional female body hair pattern and they had an option to turn the selection of body hair off when the game is spawning new Sims. I understand why they made the options available for both male and female Sims and if players like that I'm all for them making all their sims hairy, but the vast majority of RL women are not hairy in that way (as the OP says, I am talking about the averages) and I personally do not want my female Sims sporting hairy chests and hairy backs. I already spend an enormous amount of my gameplay popping into CAS to save townie fashion victims from horribly clashing clothing and extreme accessory options, having to remove chest and back hair from my female townies is not something I ever thought I would have to do too. I wish they would make hairy female chests and backs a player choice instead of a random feature.
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Re: There's no average female body hair pattern

★★ Apprentice

Is there any way to turn the body hair feature off. It is terrible, all my women have cheast hair ughh. I really dont want to have to shave it off every women its the worst thing ever. 

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