Discovered (potential) oversight with same-gender parents and family trees

by bubonickitten

Original Post

Discovered (potential) oversight with same-gender parents and family trees

[ Edited ]
★ Guide

(I'll preface this by saying that I don't *think* this is a bug, hence the (potential) in the subject line, but if it *is* a bug, I apologize for putting it in the feedback forum instead of the bug forum.)


So, for context: as soon as I installed Cottage Living, I ended up encountering this game-breaking bug, which has made my main save unplayable due to (as of now) irreversible save bloat (and unfortunately I don't have any backups from before the CL installation - my own oversight, RIP). I won't go into all the details, though - they're all in that linked thread.


ANYWAY, I only mention that because it's the only reason I noticed the following:


If I try to use console commands to set family relationships (in my case, to rebuild family trees due to having to move all my families to a new save), I cannot set two mothers or two fathers as a Sim's parents and have both show up properly in the family tree. I know that broken family trees are already a reported bug (one I've experienced myself in the past), but this doesn't seem to be related to that. It seems like the game just won't recognize a Sim having two mothers or two fathers as parents if I try to set those relationships retroactively (on adult Sims, specifically - I haven't tried it, but it's possible that it might be different if the Sims are children living in the same household as the intended parents in fullCASedit mode).


In my case, I've been playing the same save file for years. I have at least four generations; most of my Sims are adults born to same-gender parents and have since moved out to other lots and had children of their own. I pretty much exclusively play same-gender relationships, so nearly all of the played Sims in my game have same-gender parents - which means all my family trees are broken in this new save, because even with MCCC, I can't go back and assign two moms or two dads as parents to any of those Sims.


I don't know much about programming, but I assume there's something in the game's code that (outside of normal gameplay) refuses to acknowledge two biological mothers or two biological fathers. I don't think it's that the game only recognizes female Sims as able to be pregnant or male Sims as able to impregnate others, because I can set my transgender Sims who can be pregnant as a parent (but then I can't assign the Sim that got them pregnant as the other parent if they're the same gender). The problem is that when trying to retroactively assign parents, it will only recognize one mother and one father, and then expects the second parent to be a different gender from the first assigned parent.


Again, this normally isn't a problem. I only noticed it after playing for years because I had to go back and rebuild my family trees due to this new Cottage Living bug. One of the reasons I like TS4 so much is because of its LGBTQ* inclusivity. I was SO excited that the game lets us play transgender Sims in such an immersive way - AND that the language for it is so simple. "Does this Sim use the toilet standing up?" and "Can this Sim get pregnant, get others pregnant, or neither?" are incredible IMO because they're simple, to the point, and non-restrictive. I as the player can take those concrete gameplay details and visualize the finer gender identity details for each Sim without the game forcing me into a limiting or stereotypical depiction of transgender people. Likewise, I was excited that clothing, makeup, hairstyle, etc. aren't gender-locked - some of them are assigned male or female, but you can still click out of that filter and use them for either gender Sim. (Though I would also love to be able to play an agender Sim someday, without having to assign them as a man or as a woman at all. Maybe in future games?)


And based on things like the addition of pride flags (LOVE them) and the recent additional customization options for skin tone, I think the Sims team is working towards more and more inclusivity going forward (really really hoping future games have options for disabled Sims as well - I think it can be done in a respectful way, so long as disabled people are consulted in the development process). So I don't think this little bit of weirdness with same-gender parents and family trees was intentional or malicious by any means.


So, this is a really roundabout way of getting to the "feedback" portion of this post: I don't know much about programming, let alone TS4's code, but it seems like something about the game in some circumstances sees biological parents as being a mother and a father, rather than something less gendered like 'parent 1' and 'parent 2'. Maybe future games could make it so that there wouldn't be such a distinction?


Of course, if someone has a solution that DOES allow me to retroactively set an adult Sim's parents to two moms or two dads, I'd love to know about it (and it would render this entire long-winded post moot, lol).

Message 1 of 5 (751 Views)

Re: Discovered (potential) oversight with same-gender parents and family trees

[ Edited ]
★★ Expert

@bubonickitten  Yeah, I have a friend who ran into this when her main (m/m) couple ran into the "partnered Sims turn into brothers" bug.  She tried to use MCCC to delete all relationships and then rebuild them... but couldn't have two male parents.  (I suggested giving one a temporary sex change to get around it, but that was long after the fact.) 


I also play a lot of same-sex couples and find this stinky. (Sorry, team! I appreciate that you're trying your best!)


[Edited to add:  There's a bug report on this subject here where you can click "me, too" ]

Message 2 of 5 (703 Views)

Re: Discovered (potential) oversight with same-gender parents and family trees

★ Guide

Dealing with adoptive children's family tree is super complicated. I really need to test it out because I came across this problem when I made a family that was a female sim and a make sim that adopted a child but I didn't do the adoption through gameplay, I did it through cas but I'm pretty sure I set his adoptive parents as roommates then had them set as caregiver in live mode. I've had a similar problem when I had a gay couple adopt a child and it only showed one parent as the father and I think messing with mccc then messed up their relationship and they became brothers or smth like that. 


It's pretty confusing tbh maybe it would be better to have the family tree more complicated and recognize adoption including other family relationships. 

Message 3 of 5 (638 Views)

Re: Discovered (potential) oversight with same-gender parents and family trees

[ Edited ]
★★ Expert

@kaiwryplays  If you look at the bug report thread I linked above...


Basically, if you have a couple (same sex or opposite sex) adopt a child, both partners only count as "parents" if the couple is married.  Also adopting and having children most reliably behaves the way you expect when done through gameplay. 


There's also a bug where partnered Sims become siblings that seems to disproportionately affect same-sex couples.  See here for more info:

Message 4 of 5 (598 Views)

Re: Discovered (potential) oversight with same-gender parents and family trees

[ Edited ]
Community Manager

Hello hello Simmers Standard smile


Apologies for the alarm caused by locking the thread there. We needed to temporarily close it to do a wee clean-up. Any posts that cluttered up/veered off the topic of this thread (didn't keep it game-related) or weren't inline with our forum rules were removed. Let's do our best to keep this focused on the in-game features and the game feedback the thread was created to share. 


Thanks Heart




*Accept as Solution button- If a post answers your question please let us and other players know by hitting this button.
*Me Too button - 'Me Too' helps us track how many players are also experiencing that issue. Definitely make use of this button.
*XP button - Say Kudos and help players 'Level Up' by giving them XP for helpful posts.

Please only DM me if I've asked you to, or in the case of highly sensitive content. General questions/issues/topics are best shared on the forum where others can take part/benefit from the responses/solutions/workarounds

Message 5 of 5 (384 Views)
Twitter Stream