Moving my post here.
Current and new loot system doesn’t address item level improvements across different difficulty levels. Makes the game extremely unrewarding to move forward.
When we reach level 30 and doing Grandmaster 1/2/3, we need to be able to earn higher ilvl gear for each, increasing difficulty level, this will give us an insentive to keep doing the harder difficulty levels, and sense of reward.
We must have proper teired item levels with proper item stat enhancements, such as the following.
This is just an example of what it could be.
I’ve been playing looter games long enough to see what type of loot systems work, and the current system of having ilvl being the same across all difficulty levels does not work in the slightest, it also gives zero insentive to proceed and do the harder difficulty levels. Even if you were to limit the “types” of Masterwork and Legendary items you can earn from doing Gm1 vs Gm2, it wouldn’t give as much of an insentive. Know you have a chance to get higher ilvl gear to become more power is what the players want.
i hope your team reads this, because this is important for the game to succeed.
The ways to acquire loot and progress with it feels good. Hitting Grandmaster / getting masterworks especially.
Weapons and abilities feeling all the same with different rarities, unless you get a masterwork item.
Not all the time. The perks were a mess (hopefully until now).
More diversity in weapons. The exploding sniper is a good example as this gun is really fun to use. Maybe change the gun mechanics on some, e.g. firing energy projectiles, having a cooldown mechanic instead of a mag (visual), different shooting patterns. How about introducing heavy melee weapons as primaries (not as fast interceptor blades)?
March - last edited March
Progression: Guaranteed min drop of 1 MW per Stronghold to avoid complete disappointment. Option to gear luck stats to further provide higher chance of proc.
Loot: The freedom to create min-max builds that focuses on a certain skill/weapon by using relevant buffs (Javelin icon) from under-utilised skill/weapons.
Progression: Pure RNG with no option to refine/enchant/attach, no option to re-roll particular inscription, no option to merge lower tiers for higher rarity. Rolls of inscription modifier is too random and not relevant to rarity e.g. Epic rolls 1% whilst green rolls 20%, modifier pool of each rarity should have a certain range, 1-15% for common, 5-20% rare, 10-25% epic etc so as to provide a better sense of progression.
Loot: Lack of distinct character in terms of graphics, looks are not customisable nor differentiate based on rarity/modifiers, no affixes, Prospero isn't happy cause there's no thunder! A fire boosting gun should be hot to touch, just saying. White isn't pure white, green isn't dark enough, and blue should be lighter, often makes me confused with another color, but that's probably just because of my colour deficiency. Prompt during pick-up lacks thunder! and often comes too late. Item level did not account for inscriptions % modifier, 1% and 20% has the same ilvl.
It doesn't feel rewarding or meaningful. Feels more like a chore to pick up items of which 99% will be salvaged, with that 1% not making any significant upgrades to the end game build. The current system feels like I'm starting fresh with every match, and stagnating until I get a super good roll. Not to mention that sort of luck is to be repeated 11 times. The game gives me a feeling that it is impossible to create a build that I truly want and watch it bombard in it's full glory, unless I get super lucky. I know what I want, but I don't really see a way to obtain it or I don't see myself getting there, you get what I mean? Praying to get lucky on basic things like a proper build isn't fun at all. Loot systems that are fun is like WoW, do some heroic/mythic raids, and pray for a specific item to drop because I know it will most definitely make an impact to my build. In Anthem, I have no idea what will drop, which slot it is for, what stats combination will it be, what % it will be, or worse yet, which Javelin it is for. That's fine if I could reuse my effort spent, play a few more and recycle the trash into a chance for an item I need, then make improvements to that item, but the salvage and craft system's high cost of effort just doesn't seem encouraging. 25 MW even at 100% chance of getting the required material just seems too expensive for chance at reroll, moreover there are other materials involved?? Which means more effort other than grinding the MW? It's discouraging for a person who thinks he isn't lucky, and most of the human race aren't that lucky. Just look at how many who are born with a silver spoon and are given a Ferrari on their 16th birthday. Please, balance progression with effort and luck.
I was content with Diablo 3's system of which Anthem has adopted a similar concept but failed to deliver an attractive scheme. Provide more purpose to the trash loots that a player is bound to be picking up in their endless pursuit for min-max. Provide a realistic and achievable goal other that relies less on RNG and more on effort.
With realistic achievable mini goals:
1. Grind for loots in hope of getting a decent roll
2. Salvage for "precious" mats
3. Get slightly lucky and obtain MW with 2 good stats
4. Use mats to reroll a bad stat, didn't roll wanted stat
5. Grind for mats for bad stat reroll
6. Get slightly lucky with reroll and have +dmg stat with bad % modifier
7. Grind for mats for bad % modifier reroll
8. Get lucky and rolled a good % modifier
9. Grind for loots in hope of getting a 3 good stats MW, repeat 1-8, achieve 1 piece end game item for build
10. Repeat 1-10 until all slots are end game item for build
11. Move on to another build, repeat step 1-10.
12. Move on to another Javelin, repeat step 1-11.
13. Wait for new content update.
14. New expansion, repeat step 1-13.
or Anthem at current state
1. Grind for loots in hope of Jackpot for 4 good stats and % modifier
2. Salvage for crafting
3. Crafting in hope of Jackpot for 4 good stats and % modifier
4. Repeat from step 1 until Jackpot is hit.
The best thing about a game is that it fills users with sense of accomplishment at a good pace continuously, of which real life provides at a slow pace due to the difficulty of life goals. At it's current state, the progression system is basically a "0 or 1" jackpot system with no other routes, whereby the Jackpot system starts with MW tier. The idea of Jackpot should be reserved for Legendary 4 good stats, whereas MW 4 good stats is something that can be worked on, a realistic goal achievable with enough effort.
Alternatively, should %modifier be directly proportionate to ilvl, a tiered ilvl system can be implemented based on difficulty settings. This can be further improved by having "loot specification" settings to narrow down the range of pool based on builds, e.g. Interceptor to select "Melee Build" and only receives melee related stats and focus on rolling stats combination for skill build and achieve higher %.
Or, remove inscriptions from weapons and convert into attachments, of which 4 attachments can be individually attached to the gun to further provide players the freedom of any combination, drops 1-2 pieces per GM1 as per MW weapons now. So players would progress at a steady pace with %modifier tied to ilvl and the jackpot would be attachments with MW special properties.
However, please don't implement all of the above as it would make it too easy, just pick one or two new systems and the loot system should be fairly acceptable. The idea is to maintain player population by making a system that is acceptable by a good majority of 60%-ish, not all players.
All in all, devs are supposed to create small realistic achievable goals with a 0.0001% BOOM awaiting those with good luck. If progression is tied with pure luck and effort is meaningless, then players might as well go for jackpot machines instead of micro-transactions.
- What do you like about current progression and loot?
No senseless inscriptions anymore.
- What you dislike?
Same weapon skins from common to legendary and too many weak guns.
- Does it feel rewarding and meaningful?
Only high tier drops (MWs & Legendaries) . some skills and most weapons don't feel rewarding.
- What would you like to see changed?
Balanced strength from Epic - Legendary
Some epics should have some use in endgame or able to carry to that point with specific inscriptions ect.
I took Path of Exile as an example for this idea.
Many people use epics till endgame and even keeping it.
This kind of loot could feel way more rewarding. Epics drop more often and it doesn't take long to get full epic gear
after this point I salvage nearly all of it..some items like with support luck or harves I keep for farming but those epics don't give me that wow effect.
What do you like about current progression and loot?
It feels ok until you find RNG.
What do you dislike?
RNG. I don't like to spend 100 hours farming to get nothing in return, while another guy who spent exactly the same ammount of time managed to get exactly the 3 items he was looking for with the good inscriptions.
Does it feel rewarding and meaningful?
Played for 90 hours by now. Lots of loot but not a single one I want with the stats I want. So you tell me.
What would you like to see changed?
The way you divide players between those who are lucky and the ones who aren't. You could learn a little from The Division, who made exactly the same mistake with the loot. In the end the added another currency to the game and a place where players could use that currency to rerroll the bonus stats from an item. It's still RNG, but the odds are too low to complain about it. Instead of farming loot and more loot and more loot to get nothing. You just need the item you want and then farm the currency to change stats. Still takes time to change your gear the way you like, but it's fair for all players. You still make players farm, and they get what they want in the end. Everyone wins with time and effort and not with just luck.
Considering the ammount of items the game can loot, plus the ammount of inscriptions you can get with that item and the drop rates, you have more chances to win some coins in a slot machine than getting a proper item in Anthem. You've created a system where loot depends on luck, not effort. That was your great mistake. I understand that you want to reward players who spend their time and effort playing without making things too easy and fast, but this is not the solution. By checking at this topic I can see that you're trying to reduce RNG, but save the RNG after all. ... Geez.
March - last edited March
- What do you like about current progression and loot?
The progression 1-30 and white through purple items felt like what the gear progression in a lootershooter/ARPG should be like. You play, you get some loot, most of the time you play you find something that's a small improvement over what you had before, and if you don't then it's no big deal because the power difference from one item to the next isn't so huge that you can't just hold on to what you had a bit longer.
- What you dislike?
Once you get into masterworks the game completely falls apart for me. Pure frustration, I'd already have quit if the fundamentals weren't so enjoyable.
- The huge power jump from epics to masterworks makes it so that once you can use masterworks you won't want to use anything else. So instantly 95% of all loot you still get is worthless.
- The base stats of the gear aren't sufficient to make a piece of gear usable. Your power score is totally meaningless if your gear and weapons don't have a hefty damage bonus on them, which makes even more items worthless.
- There is no smooth progression through the playstyle you enjoy most. Like a certain gun? With some bad luck you'll go days if not weeks without seeing the first masterwork of its type crop up. Customizing a Javelin to be particularly good at a certain thing is practically impossible, as all the relevant bonuses are random. The game is seriously lacking an easy way to define something as simple as "Do you want your damage output to be mostly from guns, melee or abilities?
- The items can't be upgraded or raised in power score in any way, so working hard for the loot isn't very motivating, since it isn't future-proof. Any new content that increases the level cap will just set you back to square one in a system that is frustrating to begin with.
- Does it feel rewarding and meaningful?
No, it really doesn't. It's too random. Most of the times when a masterwork reveals I just sit there flipping off the screen, and when you get a good (aka. usable) piece of loot it just feels like the game has turned what should be commonplace into the rarest of occurrences. Sure there is theoretically the possibility of rolling a +300% damage piece of uberloot, and some people have that and are very happy at it, but being stuck in base damage hell isn't fun at all.
There is also a really fundamental issue with the fact that the current loot system kills expressive play. Wanting to make a unique build that functions in a certain way just isn't really possible, but that's half the fun of playing any game with RPG elements.
For example: My original idea for a build was "Artillery Colossus", I thought I'd stack as many bonuses to my Q as possible, get its damage really high, get its cooldown really low, and then just rain mortar shells on my enemies. This is theoretically possible. You can find gear pieces that all give you Q damage, Blast damage, Gear damage etc. Get a gear piece with extra charges and a high damage mod, get cooldown reduction where you can, stack the right components etc. The problem is that getting every single one of those pieces is like winning the lottery, so I can't make my build. The customization aspect of the game is being held hostage behind the awful loot system. The Masterwork Burst Mortar is also a total joke. Instead of giving it a bonus that plays along with the "Lay down artillery barrages" fantasy of the Burst Mortar it just turns it into a detonator. That's what an HE mortar is for.
Compare all that to something like Borderlands, the grand daddy of looter shooters. It makes a lot more sense there. Yes, you have to find loot, and you have to pick what kind of weapons, shields etc. you want to equip, but the loot progression mostly just increases your power. The way your character plays is mostly determined by picking a class and then picking a spec within that class. If you want to heavily rely on your action skill you can pick talents that boost its power and reduce its cooldown, if you want to heavily rely on weapons or even a certain kind of weapon you can pick talents that boost that playstyle. You don't need the perfect piece of gear to make those kinds of choices. In Anthem a build is purely gear, so unless you get lucky enough to have the perfect gear for the build you can't make the choice. It also means that getting a piece of gear that actually works with what you want to do is obscenely unlikely. That really sucks the fun out of the game for me. Post 30 I haven't even been able to use the weapon I like most because I just haven't gotten a drop of the masterwork and the game won't let me craft it despite having completed all challenges with the base item ten times over. Awful.
- What would you like to see changed?
I'll just post what I wrote in the Loot Feedback thread from the General board.
This latest patch did absolutely nothing to offset the frustration of Anthem's loot system. I want to lay out what's wrong with the system, and I want to lay out how I think the loot system should work.
The issues with the system we have:
1. The power jump from Epic to Masterwork is so huge that you can't simply hold on to your epics until you find the Masterwork items you enjoy most, you have to use whatever you find, even if it's not fun for you to use at all.
2. Items can very easily roll with useless stats, even after this patch, because absolutely essential stats like damage increase are rolled randomly and out of the same pot as things that aren't even remotely as valuable.
3. Customization of your playstyle isn't possible without extremely lucky rolls for a whole set of items that support your play style.
4. Extreme grind makes the possibility of future content updates with level cap increases rob you of all motivation to put that much work in.
How the loot system should work to fix this:
In order to make sure that every item provides a reasonable amount of the essential stats that you can't do without items gain 3 base stats: Weapons, Frame and Power Core. The Weapons stat boosts the damage output, ammo, etc. of weapons. The Frame stat boosts the HP, shield, melee damage, and engine performance of the Javelin. The Power Core stat boosts ability damage, ultimate recharge and ability recharge.
Every item comes with a proportional spread of these 3 stats, 1/1/3, 1/3/1, 3/1/1, 2/2/1, 2/1/2, and 1/2/2. That way you can customize your Javelin toward your preferred play style with just these 6 types of items, and you have a 50% chance to get an item that has at least an average amount of the stat you prefer most.
Each Javelin would have it's own modifiers based on these stats. For example a Colossus gets a very large amount of health and shield from every point of Frame, while an Interceptor gets a significant bonus to melee damage from having high Frame tuning. This allows us to make a lot more universal components because they don't need to have specific set numbers of HP/Shield, instead the Javelin simply has an appropriate Frame modifier.
The power level of the item is multiplied by its proportional spread to derive at the stat numbers. Power level is much more essential to determine the actual strength of an item, and endgame items don't spawn at a set power level. Items spawn significantly more often, but the highest power levels are still very rare. Items of all rarities drop at all power levels. It's theoretically possible to find a legendary item at level 1, but it will have an appropriately low power level.
The items will still roll random properties, but these properties are less aggressive in terms of how important they are to make the item good. You'll get most of the damage increases you need to have a workable character from the 3 base stats, the inscriptions provide relatively small bonuses that can stack up to a nice payoff, but never completely make an item useless or leave a Javelin powerless despite it's power level.
The level of items can be increased by merging an item of equal quality with a higher power level into it. Every merge increases the items power level by 1 and consumes the more powerful item. This makes it so that if you have a great item you can upgrade it and keep it relevant, but you have to still find items with the appropriate amount of power to sacrifice in this process. This will make it so items with great stats are never useless because they aren't max level, and you never feel like future increases in item level make working hard for perfect items now a waste of time. Masterwork or Legendary items are of course difficult to upgrade all the way from low level because you need a lot of high level items of the same quality.
With a system like that all of the worst issues would be taken care of. Smoother power curve by basing the most essential stats items need on power level. Items are never useless because the base stats provide a useful amount of damage, hitpoints, gear damage etc. on all items. The most fundamental playstyle customization Gunner/Brawler/Caster is taken care of by the three base stats, so you don't feel like you need to roll a perfect set of items to not just be average across the board. The ability to upgrade the power level of items future proofs them so you don't have to worry about grinding for nothing, and finding great loot is enjoyable at any level.
However I immensely dislike the rate at which loot drops, particularly at GM where enemy strength becomes exceedingly strong but that's a separate gripe; It would great if Legendary items rolled at the maximum possible values instead of being marginally stronger than masterwork. Simply put there's far too much RNG involved on top of the grind which isn't as bad in say Destiny, where Exotics all have predetermined attributes or The Division which allows you to freely re-roll perks and even upgrade the item itself to max it out (which is fantastic when you do finally get that perfect combination of perks)
The current progression system is fine up until you hit endgame - I will say that Blueprints are VERY welcome and a surprisingly progressive addition to this genre, but between enemies just being disgustingly overpowered to the point of invalidating my entire build and playstyle up until this point (and really why should I even care about getting the best guns when said guns tickle enemies anyway?) and loot being stingy and heavily reliant on RNG (with no ways to mitigate this unlike Diablo 3 or The Division) it really sucks the fun out of an otherwise stellar combat experience - Anthem feels like Andromeda on steroids and I love that!!!
So as far as changes go, for starters we NEED a detailed stat page for the Forge similar to what you see in Assassin's Creed Odyssey - I'd like for example to know exactly what my max Armor, Shields and Resistances are. Enemy strength needs a serious overhaul as the 400 minimum for GM is a complete lie. I'm around 460 ish now and even the trash mobs annihilate my Interceptor while sponging entire magazines from my Yvennia which by sheer luck btw, rolled an insane +75% physical dmg perk. Even my ult feels weak at times. I bring this up because it's like I need the crazy top end gear to obtain said gear... And for benefit exactly ? I get that this game is more ability driven butt I seriously dislike how my guns feel like they're there purely for their passive effects rather than my primary offensive tool which is jarring to say the least.
Some way to customize them with mods would be amazing. I also miss being able to stack more than 1 of the same component like we could in the beta, but I can see why that was changed. Finally I do think any crafted MW should have a small (5-10%) chance to be legendary instead.
Sry for the long post.
March - last edited March
The problem with GM difficulty is that the damage scaling in the game doesn't happen predictably with your loots power level, but with the random bonuses your loot provides. If all of your attacks have 200% bonus damage on them doing GM2 feels perfectly fine, but for some reason the devs didn't make appropriate damage increases part of an items base stats, but a very rare random roll you have to get before the item is in the right numberspace to even be usable.
And yea, having the loot system work like Assassin's Creed Odyssey would be awesome. Two random stats, two stats you get to pick yourself, that way you never get screwed out of having the stats that are most relevant to your build or required to do the content.
The only thing I'd like to be changed is to add some value to items from higher difficulty.
I want items from GM2 to be better than items from GM1 and so on. Just a slightly improved chance to get the same items doesn't cut it for me.
March - last edited March
The HP increase of enemies from GM1 to GM2 is LUDICROUS, the power Level 490 is not enough to deal with this in a timely fashion
There is no high level progression because you plaster us with worthless drops, randomized MWs , maybe a legendary once in 3 days with awful damage values or a component with TWO crappy percentage afflixes ...on a legendary… but no meaningful way to build a character because you cant reroll certain afflixes etc. and the lottery to get a decent combo is INSANE.
The guns besides Devastator and Heavy pistol SUCK imho.
The loot update was so miniscule that i was about to post a rant about Bioware delaying the update until i noticed only by reading up on it that they DID update.
Seriously ? Is that why im getting still plastered with meaningless white, green blue and purple crap in GM1+ ?
MW+ component drops are TOO RARE , I have a gazillion of grenades & guns & shoulder weapons, but a component drop is like 1 out 50 and then its often even MEH, i even already salvage MW cause im running out of space.
NO SUPPORT ITEMS HIGHER THAN EPIC? Are you for real? The Shield for ranger is already TOTALLY USELESS in some of GM1 and all of GM2
You barred the crafting of MW components behind the most OBNOXIOUS , STUPID, UNCREATIVE Grind Wall ive ever seen in a videogame. 50000 points of this and that …. yeah GREAT. By the time i have that . (120 hours im at 5% of the requirements) the game will be DEAD and i will have lost interest 1 year before that.
(What of course they did update NOTEABLY were the microtransactions where i see stuff today that wasnt in the cycle ever before, still
totally boring stuff but well at least stuff)