The Death of Dragon Age and Bioware.

[WinterKnightems]

 I actually have played those in origins. They were in game politics that drove the story. Completely different from force feeding real world politics into the game just to have them.

 In hushed whispers was like fluffy snow bunny stuff compared to origins. Like being able to betray your best friend side with the main antagonist marry his daughter and execute

your friend so you can become king. Make a deal with a demon that you can exchange the life of a child for sex with her. Hunting down the woman who had your child through coercing you into doing a dark ritual to save your life then gut her like a fish.

 Or did you not do the deep roads part where they tell you how the dark spawn kills male dwarfs and captures females to * and torture and turn into giant blobs that birth darkspawn.

 This is just a little of the horribly dark things from DAO that DA2 and DAi can not come close to.

[WinterKnightems]

yes that's the point of the whole conversation, although I don't consider sexuality diversity. 

I'd like to think an actual qunari spy being accepted into a chantry driven inquisition is more of an example of diversity.

[holger1405]

@WinterKnightems

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loupgaroudei  schrieb:

 I hope someone in EA reads this and understands that most of your players are not into sjw leftist politics.

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Bold claim. Any real life data to back that up?

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@WinterKnightems  schrieb:

the fact that your lead narrative director outright said that DA4 will be political and celebrate diversity....

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I also fail to see how "celebrate diversity" is a "sjw leftist politics" agenda. Diversity is a fact of life. Just because you don't like it doesn't change that fact.

See, in the end it is really easy.

Imho the overwhelming majority of players don't care about what you call "world politics jammed in".

I want a good story with good characters. I don't care if a character is transgender or homosexual, and I don't see the presence of all sexual orientations, or the existence of transgender characters, (transgender people have the same right to be recognized in video games as any other social group) as a "sjw leftist politics" coup. (And I guess that is true for most of all players)

If you are playing Bioware games diversity will be there, as it always was.

And that's a good thing because it reflects real life, as it should be.  

[WinterKnightems]

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@holger1405 wrote:

@WinterKnightems

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loupgaroudei  schrieb:

 I hope someone in EA reads this and understands that most of your players are not into sjw leftist politics.

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Bold claim. Any real life data to back that up?

 I replied with a long and well thought out statement but it didn't post. TL:DR version just look at fan reactions and negative reviews because of the politics.

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@WinterKnightems  schrieb:

the fact that your lead narrative director outright said that DA4 will be political and celebrate diversity....

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I also fail to see how "celebrate diversity" is a "sjw leftist politics" agenda. Diversity is a fact of life. Just because you don't like it doesn't change that fact.

See, in the end it is really easy.

Imho the overwhelming majority of players don't care about what you call "world politics jammed in".

I want a good story with good characters. I don't care if a character is transgender or homosexual, and I don't see the presence of all sexual orientations, or the existence of transgender characters, (transgender people have the same right to be recognized in video games as any other social group) as a "sjw leftist politics" coup. (And I guess that is true for most of all players)

If you are playing Bioware games diversity will be there, as it always was.

And that's a good thing because it reflects real life, as it should be.  

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 We all want a good story with interesting characters. Most people I see want da to go back to it's dark fantasy roots. Yes transgender have the right to be in a game, however why just throw it in just to have it in verse making it matter to the story? 

 Sexuality is not diversity to me. 

diversity is a fact of life but not a focus of life. CHanging that for a game is not a good look for the company.

[holger1405]

@WinterKnightems

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loupgaroudei  schrieb:

 I replied with a long and well thought out statement but it didn't post. TL:DR version just look at fan reactions and negative reviews because of the politics.

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This is anecdotal at best.

People who don't like something are always more inclined to speak out about it as people who like something or people who simply don't care.

Only because you see a few hundred post on the internet doesn't mean that there is a large enough group of people to really influence the sales of DA4 in the future.

Especially because there are plenty of people in this debate that don't care for this game, or games in general at all, but only want to fight some "cultural war", want to make some money on YouTube, or want to bring there own political agenda forward. 

My point remains.

And if you don't want "politics jammed in" you should not try to do exactly that. 

[WinterKnightems]

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@holger1405 wrote:

@WinterKnightems

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loupgaroudei  schrieb:

 I replied with a long and well thought out statement but it didn't post. TL:DR version just look at fan reactions and negative reviews because of the politics.

---

This is anecdotal at best.

People who don't like something are always more inclined to speak out about it as people who like something or people who simply don't care.

Only because you see a few hundred post on the internet doesn't mean that there is a large enough group of people to really influence the sales of DA4 in the future.

Especially because there are plenty of people in this debate that don't care for this game, or games in general at all, but only want to fight some "cultural war", want to make some money on YouTube, or want to bring there own political agenda forward. 

My point remains.

And if you don't want "politics jammed in" you should not try to do exactly that. 

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Not arguing this anymore. We will see what happens when the game comes out and if those politics are interjected as I mentioned who is right about this. 
We are just running the gambit of circular arguments. 

 I'm only interested in what Ataashi presented to me and he or she will be the only person I respond to if they are not adding to that portion of the conversation.

[mcsupersport]

While I am not EA, you did blow off my whole point of politics always being in the game with the idea of "well it was game related...."

Maybe, but it was still politics and actually related to real world and making statements about real world issues, they just don't happen to be a hot button for you.  Let's take the City Elves...hmm, lets see, forced to live in Ghettos in a major city as the lower class workforce of a dominate race and cultures demands....hmmm, in the US here, I can think of a group typically stereotyped like that....

Grey Wardens...willing to do ANYTHING to get the job done, laws or rules don't apply...hmm, you don't know ANY group that espouses that in real life, or people who believe that should be the way??  US alphabet letter government groups, certain hate groups, certain political groups when it comes to them getting their way??

Like I said earlier, it was always in there, and games often comment in either subtle or obvious ways on their society when they were created.  This is why games and tropes change but often stay the same.  Heck, look at how many people USED to love a game where you "won" at the end and got the girl, and yet now that is called "childish" and "unoriginal" as some of the kindest remarks for games who do this now.  NOW people want "dark" "edgy" "gritty" and "mature themed" endings...which to me means if your character doesn't have a good chance being miserable or dead at the end of the game, it isn't nowadays considered "a good story"....heck, I saw people over on FC5 forum calling that game a good story cause Ubi decided to nuke the world instead of letting you off the badguy...

Now as from Krem....I could take it or leave it, and can miss 99% of the convo about him if I wanted, but he DOES add to the story and show insight into both Tevinter AND the Qunari cultures.  Does this character play any role or will the info you learned here make any difference???  No clue, wiil have to wait until the next game, which is likely going to be set in Tevinter.  Honestly, the DA writers have done a real good job in how they have handled characters, and story, so I have no worries on that score.  But only time will tell. 

[Valadenthys]

OP, you claim most players are not into politics, like implying that aren't enjoying the game as much, but the people who have posted in this thread seem to support DA and its narrative.

As for chracters constantly mentioning the transgender character and seeming like it does nothing to the plot, we've always have characters in DA who had their little moments of protagonism and they kind of showed up later in the games. Who knows? Maybe Krem will end up being a companion later.

I personally don't feel like the game is dying, and in comparison to other Bioware games DA:I seemed to be well received for what I read in forums and diverse platform comments.