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Re: Outmaneuver subject to taunt? Even with multiple taunts on the board?


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Re: Outmaneuver subject to taunt? Even with multiple taunts on the board?

★★ Guide

Everything else aside - even the new hotness needs it's counter.  Bug's have been flaunted since the beginning of ships 2.0 as the go-to line-up.  This continues to give them some life, still.

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Re: Outmaneuver subject to taunt? Even with multiple taunts on the board?

Cassian U-wing reinforcement is also a good counter - it removes all buffs from all enemy ships, including Outmaneuver, so you can target the Falcon and kill it.
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Re: Outmaneuver subject to taunt? Even with multiple taunts on the board?

★★★★ Novice

@DarthBarron wrote:

The selection of a random target is still targeting.  "Random" just indiciates the method in choosing the single target, not the act of targeting itself. The Falcon, based on its ability description, should be excluded from the pool of eligible ships to be targeted/chosen at random.  It's no different than other games where you need to choose a target at random, say by rolling a dice.  The action is still to target, it is the selction that is removed from the players hand.


And it's not being treated differently than the stealth / taunt interaction.  The core issue is whether HMF can be the target of an abiility, no matter how the target is selected.  

So, a game like MTG has this sort of thing ironed out. Treat Outmaneuver like Hexproof, can't be targeted by the opponent. Now there are many things that the opponent can do to that creature. The difference is in the wording. If the spell is choosing targets at random, then yes, it can't be targeted. BUT if it's choosing creatures or permanents at random then it is a very valid option. One uses the word target and the other doesn't. Spy only targets one ship on it's reinforcement.

@DarthBarron wrote:

Given that this "untargetability" is unique to the game (although similar to stealthed targets), it's certainly possible that there are unintended bugs in how it functions. That's why these reports are great!

The difference between stealth and outmanuever, from what I can tell, is that the definition of Stealth, at least from the list on Gaming Fans, is that the "Character can not be targeted directly", whereas, Outmanuever excludes the word "directly" and just says cannot be targeted.  To me, this implies that HMF, as long as it has the outmanuever buff, cannot be the target from any type of attack, whether it is direct, indirect, random, etc.  Outmanuever is basically an upgraded stealth ability.  At least that is how I am interpreting it with respect to otehr definititions in game.  


Opinions will vary, especially between HMF and Spy users.  I am an HMF user (full disclosure), but I am trying to look at this unbiasly, through other game definitions and interactions.  Really interested to see if we get an official response on this and what it is.

You mention here that with Outmaneuver the falcon shouldn't be able to be the target of any type of attack. So you're essentially also wanting it to be immune to AOE attacks as well then. Taking from my point above you're saying it should be able to avoid things like Damnation or Anger of the Gods that hit everything.


The ship is already busted, it doesn't need more added on. At least fix the issues that are making it over the top before thinking it needs to be pushed further. The fact it's been able to let people with G8-10 pilots beat fleets full of G12+ pilots in about a minute or two shows a clear balance issue. It doesn't need more, it needs to be fixed.

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