Mouse control not fit for purpose

[Sandstone10]

@monkaSTEER and @v3r7. Actually, Freelancer has a different and well thought-out control system! They use gimballed weapons that fire at the position of the cursor, not in the direction being faced by the ship. While there is no deadzone for the gimballed weapons, which always fire at the cursor, there is a deadzone for ship rotation. This means easy shooting and no rocking back and forth trying to orientate your ship on the center.

Surprisingly, because in Star Wars weapons should not traditionally be gimballed a different control scheme is needed. People are suggesting to implement the control scheme in Tie-fighter and X-wing Alliance, I guess because it works. @Straatford87 if you really want relative mouse control, I suggest seeing how House of the Dying Sun did it. They had very positive reviews on Steam and as far as I could tell there were no issues with their relative control scheme. It works because while the ship turns to face the cursor, the cursor autocenters. Thus the ship goes where you point.

I don’t understand why this thread is marked as “solved”; you’ve got plenty of more comments since raising the same issue and some of the lengths of the posts show a real passion.

[NalarZ]

@Nogenscone I just picked this up yesterday, and I thought this was going to be an updated experience like the LucasArts games like you said, but the controls are a joke for M/KB. Mouse roll/yaw controls need to be configurable. Getting a refund since they haven't bothered to do anything in a month.

[mikesierra44]

• Which flight games have you played with mouse/keyboard?
  • X-Wing, X-Wing vs Tie Fighter, X-Wing Alliance, Freelancer, Descent Freespace 1 and 2
• What is your preferred mouse control method in other flight games (e.g virtual stick, virtual stick with automatic reset to center, etc.)? Do you play first or third person with that scheme?
  • this isnt clear to me but closest to what I think is: virtual stick with automatic reset to center. If my mouse is not moving, the pitch and yaw should not change! it leads to rocking up and down and imprecise flight
• What are your mouse DPI settings in squadrons?
  • no idea, I have a newer Razor wireless USB mouse that I use from everything from UI design to video production, so its capable of switch to higher DPIs
• Are you playing with any other special hardware? (VR, ultra widescreen, multiple monitors, etc.)
  • no
• What are your sensitivity and mouse screen range settings in squadrons?
  • sensitivity 40 range 20
• Are you having any issues with the current mouse controls? If so, what are the issues?
  • yes, its moves like a joystick and not like older flight sims, If my mouse is not moving, the pitch and yaw should not change
• Are you specifically having any issues with mouse sensitivity or deadzone?
  • no
• As an AVID flight sim player, Ive been waiting for this game since I played X-Wing in 1993, please allow for a setting to switch this over, Im not able to play!

[KhydroDjent]

Space Engineers has fantastic mouse and Keyboard flight controls. Really simple but it's how flying with a mouse should be done in my opinion.  

[Qu4ntumShift]

+ 1 Million for the ability to rebind the mouse axis to roll instead of yaw.

How have we reached version 3.0 without the ability to bind the mouse axes the way we want them. It would seem to me that hard coding any controls in a simulation would be a cardinal sin. Yet here we are.

I haven't played this since 2 days after release because I had faith this would be fixed in short order, and because I wanted to enjoy the experience, which I can't since I can't control the ship the way my brain wants to. Why are the mouse axes hard coded, was it just laziness or is there a technical or engine limitation or issue?

Anyway, here is what would fix the mouse issues for me...

1. The ability to rebind roll to the horizontal (X) mouse axis instead of the default hard coded yaw.

2. A slider added to the control configuration that adjusts the amount/speed of spring used to automatically recenter the mouse. At a setting of zero there is no automatic recentering, and at a setting of 100 the mouse recenters itself very quickly.

Fix those two issues and I personally have no other complaints with the mouse as adjusting the range of motion and sensitivity settings worked fine for me.

[DarthFDG]

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@Qu4ntumShift wrote:

1. A slider added to the control configuration that adjusts the amount/speed of spring used to automatically recenter the mouse. At a setting of zero there is no automatic recentering, and at a setting of 100 the mouse recenters itself very quickly.

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Hear! Hear!

[ejms07]

Nope, EA has no interest in fix this issue that is even fixable by a 8yo kid.

This issue is all over the forums and many have opened a ticket with tech support, including me, and no answer.

[Badmagic-One]

Agreed, its like errors with any of their other games, when its been this long with such a huge error its apparent they have no intention of actually addressing it, simply making a 'we're listening' post to supplicate and mollify people, if you didn't refund like myself and others your stuck with it as is their usual practice.  

[Qu4ntumShift]

BUG: Binding pitch up and pitch down to the keyboard as secondary control inputs causes Improper control behavior.

Behavior: Pressing pitch up or down on the keyboard causes the mouse control to recenter itself upon release overriding all mouse inputs to pitch and yaw.

Expected Behavior: Upon releasing pitch up or down on the keyboard the pitch should return to the current mouse input values making sure to account for mouse inputs made during the key press. In addition, keyboard inputs to pitch should not affect the yaw input of the mouse in any way at any time. The keyboard inputs should only temporarily set the pitch to its maximum value and then defer back to the pitch and yaw values of the mouse, with subsequent mouse inputs made during the keypress accounted for and without ever affecting the yaw value of the mouse input. (Edited for clarity)

Addendum: While not tested, the assumption would be that the same behavior is achieved when using yaw as a secondary input on the keyboard, overriding the mouse input value upon release and incorrectly affecting pitch in the aforementioned way.

[pulsecontrol]

Hi, Tom and fellow players.

Honestly, I've gotten used to the mouse and keyboard and have slight, but not extreme, complaints. In brief I agree with Qu4ntumShift as far as what needs to be done to fix the issues, but with two additional suggestions.

1. Add an optional mouse deadzone size setting around the reticle. This is crucial for a zero turn rate and thus maintaining aim/course. Right now it requires making micro-adjustments while trying to keep one's mouse hand steady. With the current stick movement even at 0 sens, 94 screen, and 400dpi, this is a maddening prospect. It can also be accomplished by lifting the mouse and resetting to center while holding the mouse above the pad. That is not a viable option, obviously, as immediate reaction is part and parcel to the game.
2. Add an optional friction setting which would reduce the turning rate when the virtual stick coincides with the center or deadzone. Similar to the throttle's friction, this would make tracking the target potentially much more manageable, and would allow adjustment for movement-affecting firing mechanisms like the beam and rotary cannons as well as making boosts exceptionally more precise at navigating around obstacles with multiple subsequent sharp turns. This is crucial for handling the ship.

I'll explain why I feel this way, but that's the gist of it.

So...at first, my reaction to the control scheme was "Why isn't this like SWTOR: Galactic Starfighter? That was an amazing game and I performed extremely well."

Then, I remembered how long it took me to get used to that very game.

So, today, with drift bound to mouse2, and recenter on the mouse thumb, I have relatively accurate control of piloting and aim. The issue is precision.

Current settings:

• DPI = 400 (lowest, yet somewhat too high for necessary aim and piloting precision at current sensitivity
• Sensitivity = 0.005000
• Mouse screen range = 0.940815

Piloting the craft would be a joy, and the boost/drift should be refined and expanded upon. Of course, without VR, I crash into unforeseeable edges of walls and other objects and ships occasionally. Sometimes, this cannot be avoided simply because I am using a 2D screen with a limited FOV, so I have adjusted my play style and loadouts to suit my capabilities with this setup. Unfortunately, precision and immediacy of reaction - necessary for dogfighting - related to the non-automatic reset to center in the mouse virtual stick has such a learning curve that it is as of yet beyond me, and I would have to double my playing hours to nail even the next few maneuvers I want to try, so diminishing returns. In other words, I will continue to better at strategy and squad tactics, but my mechanical reflexes and reactions will still be limited.

When in a dogfight, lightning reflexes are an absolute must. The learning curve for the non-automatic reset to center was so high I considered purchasing a flight stick and throttle in addition to already having a controller, but decided against it because of the simple fact that different doesn't mean worse. I'm very glad I stuck with the mouse and Squadrons. It's not perfect, though, and this needs to be recognized and addressed.

I hope I speak for everyone who does play with the KB/mouse when I say we would appreciate some engagement at least to refine to include the two suggested settings from Qu4ntumShift (bindable mouse axes and scalable stick recenter rate upon button press) as well as the above two settings I mention and possibly some others.

Thank you.