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Re: Mouse control not fit for purpose

by Nogenscone
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Original Post

Re: Mouse control not fit for purpose

★★ Novice

I just want to be able to bind roll to my mouse movements, Battlefield plays like this and it makes way more sense, my brain cant get used yaw being on the mouse.

Message 41 of 89 (672 Views)

Re: Mouse control not fit for purpose

★★★ Novice

Hi EA Tom,

 

I've am a veteran of X-Wing, Tie Fighter, X-Wing vs Tie Fighter, X-Wing Alliance, Wing Commander, Freelancer, Descent Freespace, most of the X series of games (X2, X3, X4 etc), and countless more terrestrial flight combat sims and FPS games with vehicles. I've been away from the space sim genre for a little while so have missed some of the more recent games in the genre (Elite Dangerous). I played most of these games with mouse and keyboard and had no difficulty shooting accurately on a 286 PC playing X-Wing at sub 20fps.

 

I was so excited that Squadrons was coming out, but then the reality of my experience has been a considerable disappointment. The most significant of the issues is that the implementation of the mouse and keyboard controls is by a considerable margin, the worst I have experienced in any flight game ever.

 

However, I would sincerely like the game to be successful so I'll try and be constructive...

 

I don't use any special hardware, no special monitors or mouses, no special software that I've tweaked. I've tried a number of different sensitivity settings in Squadrons and nothing feels right. My last attempt was to turn motion range to near 0 and sensitivity to something mid range and then just repeatedly spam the centring button. Was surprisingly effective for the obstacle course but too much to keep spamming a keyboard button while in combat.

 

My preferred method of mouse control is direct input. I have no real issues with picking my mouse up and putting it down again when I run out of room. Just about any time you are controlling anything in a 3D environment with a mouse you expect that motion will be directly coupled to your viewpoint. Virtual stick decouples this.

 

But if we must use a virtual stick... 

 

Provide an option to turn off the mouse indicator. I play with controls inverted and it is a massive UI fail to be moving the mouse in one direction and seeing a cursor moving in the opposite direction. Your brain is wired to expect a cursor to move in the direction of travel of the mouse. I invert the controls because my brain is wired to expect pulling back on a stick to increase pitch. These two things can't coexist in an interface. I honestly think you can turn the indicator off altogether, there is enough background information (starfields, obstacles etc) that you can judge your relative motion without needing a cursor to tell you that.

 

As many people have said, finding the deadzone is really hard, particularly snapping to it. I think it could benefit from a more non-linear mapping from virtual stick position to rotation rate. I assume at the moment it is set up so that the max cursor position corresponds to max rotation rate, then linearly varies the rotation rate with cursor position down to zero as you reach the tiny deadzone. I think people then skip right over the dead zone and end up with a high rotation rate in the opposite direction and end up overshooting and oscillating about the point they want. I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing to have a small deadzone as you want to be able to make small adjustments to your aimpoint without having to have a big movement to cross the deadzone - so I think there are other solutions than just a bigger deadzone.

 

1) You could try a nonlinear mapping from cursor position to rotation rate so that it is much slower near the centre and much faster near the edges. This would give you more precision near the middle where you need it while retaining the ability to get to max rotation rate quickly.

2) You could try a blend between direct input and virtual stick - not sure how you'd mix them though so it might need to be a user input to hold it.

3) Some kind of smart autocentre whether it is snap to centre, or just have the mouse cursor position decay to the centre automatically over time with the decay time based on the cursor position.

 

A lot of people complain about not being able to swap yaw/roll between mouse and keyboard. I grew up with X-Wing which was default yaw on the mouse so I don't mind either way. As a professional flight controls engineer though, I would definitely say that roll on the right hand is far more natural... people should at least have the option to switch it to what they want.

 

Message 42 of 89 (657 Views)

Re: Mouse control not fit for purpose

★★★ Newbie
Hi @EA_Straatford,

- Which flight games have you played with mouse/keyboard?
Rogue Squadron 3D, Freelancer, FX Strike Fighters, Battlefront 2, Battlefield 3

- What is your preferred mouse control method in other flight games (e.g virtual stick, virtual stick with automatic reset to center, etc.)? Do you play first or third person with that scheme?
Default, most often first person

- What are your mouse DPI settings in squadrons?
Can't remember

- Are you playing with any other special hardware? (VR, ultra widescreen, multiple monitors, etc.)
Nope

- What are your sensitivity and mouse screen range settings in squadrons?
Can't remember

- Are you having any issues with the current mouse controls? If so, what are the issues?
Yes, remapping roll to mouse X and yaw to A/D is not currently possible

- Are you specifically having any issues with mouse sensitivity or deadzone?
Nope, but would be great to be able to increase deadzone

IMHO having either the ability to remap roll / yaw for mouse or have Control Schemes like controller has (Default / Aviator) would be more than enough.
Message 43 of 89 (634 Views)

Re: Mouse control not fit for purpose

[ Edited ]
★★ Novice

@EA_Straatford

Which flight games have you played with mouse/keyboard?


Freelancer, Deadspace 2, Elite Dangerous, X Series 2-4, Star Citizen



What is your preferred mouse control method in other flight games (e.g virtual stick, virtual stick with automatic reset to center, etc.)? Do you play first or third person with that scheme?


Virtual Joystick - uninverted so up is up etc. Star Citizens VJoy is well done if you need an example.



What are your mouse DPI settings in squadrons?


I normally run at 16k but for Squadrons I've had to drop it down to 3k.



Are you playing with any other special hardware? (VR, ultra widescreen, multiple monitors, etc.)


Nope, I prefer to play on my Laptop as I spend all day behind a desk.



What are your sensitivity and mouse screen range settings in squadrons?


5% sensitivity, 90% motion screen range



Are you having any issues with the current mouse controls? If so, what are the issues?


It feels like a 1% input is 100%, basically a small movement on my part is a very big movement in game, this makes keeping on target difficult as you have to keep correcting oversteer. In fact that's a very good analogy, it's like oversteer in a Formula 1 car.



Are you specifically having any issues with mouse sensitivity or deadzone?


Sensitivity isn't the issue, I've had to drop my sensitivity to try and compensate for the issue I'm having but like I replied in the last question it feels like the game is taking a minor input from the users end and making a large output in game... like oversteer in a Formula 1 car.

Message 44 of 89 (585 Views)

Re: Mouse control not fit for purpose

★★ Novice
@EA_Straatford Elite Dangerous, MS Flight Sim. Chiefly the mouse needs to be rebindable. Forceing the left and right movement of the mouse to be Yaw only is just silly. Please let use rebind the yaw on MOUSE to be ROLL.
Message 45 of 89 (565 Views)

Re: Mouse control not fit for purpose

Champion

@EA_Straatford - As you seem to have some pretty good detail now, what are the next steps? When should we expect a response as to what should be done differently?

 

I would imagine the development team has some recommendations on settings/config as a short-term (if not long-term) fix.

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Message 46 of 89 (556 Views)

Re: Mouse control not fit for purpose

★★ Novice

If the devs just play a few minutes of Tie Fighter or X-wing, they will know what we are talking about.  Sadly, I refunded until this is updated. 

Message 47 of 89 (510 Views)

Re: Mouse control not fit for purpose

[ Edited ]
★★ Novice

@EA_Straatford 

 

Been dogfighting with mouse flight in the game Freelancer for nearly 10 years and I can say with certainty that the mouse control in this game is perfectly fine. This complaint is almost certainly just people making excuses for their own inadequacy rather than a legitimate issue with the game.

Message 48 of 89 (446 Views)

Re: Mouse control not fit for purpose

★★ Apprentice
@monkaSTEER Freelancer uses the same, horrible, mouse mechanic as this game. Just because you played one game in the last 17 years and it just so happens to use the same controls as this, doesn't mean this doesn't need to be fixed. There are tons of games, in the last 17 years, that get it RIGHT.
Message 49 of 89 (435 Views)

Re: Mouse control not fit for purpose

★★★★★ Novice

Every day I open Origin hoping to receive an update that makes the game playable. But still after a million posts and 3 patches, the roll/yaw controls remain locked. This should be the easiest fix ever!

 

You guys simply force me to refund. I was looking forward to this game every since I first heard a whisper of it coming, now its here and it looks so amazing, really wish it would be playable!

Message 50 of 89 (423 Views)
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