Isolate not preventing jolee from reviving allies

[Tmejdrech]

Product: Star Wars: Galaxy of Heroes
Platform:Android Phone
What type of device are you experiencing the issue with? Samsung galaxy s7 edge
OS Version 8.0
Ally Code: (Find it here: http://bit.ly/AllyCode ) 468-824-424
What type of issue do you have? Gameplay
How often does the bug occur? Often (50% - 99%)
Summarize your bug Jolee is reviving a jedi that was isolates when killed.
Steps: How can we find the bug ourselves?
Connection Type Wifi
Please select your region North America
Country United States

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Video:

https://youtu.be/As8a-3JIyUE

[GladOS-013 · Accepted solution]

This is working as intended. Isolate from the character Traya functions differently than in the raid. When a character with Isolate dies during another character’s turn, they cannot be revived (such as Sion dying with Held by Hatred, and won’t revive himself).

However, after the end of that turn, the dead character no longer has Isolate, and can be revived by other revive abilities such as Jolee or Old Daka.

This is in contrast to Isolate in the sith raid, which prevents the character from ever being revived.

[GladOS-013 · Accepted solution]

This is working as intended. Isolate from the character Traya functions differently than in the raid. When a character with Isolate dies during another character’s turn, they cannot be revived (such as Sion dying with Held by Hatred, and won’t revive himself).

However, after the end of that turn, the dead character no longer has Isolate, and can be revived by other revive abilities such as Jolee or Old Daka.

This is in contrast to Isolate in the sith raid, which prevents the character from ever being revived.

[yossarin77]

While we talk about isolate, is it also intended for general kenobi to gain taunt when an isolated character is crit? This is what happens when I play against revan, he gets isolate and the moment I crit against him gk her taunt. 

On my side the team was maul (leader, zeta) traya, nihilistic, sion and nest. 

[GladOS-013]

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@yossarin77 wrote:

While we talk about isolate, is it also intended for general kenobi to gain taunt when an isolated character is crit? This is what happens when I play against revan, he gets isolate and the moment I crit against him gk her taunt. 

On my side the team was maul (leader, zeta) traya, nihilistic, sion and nest. 

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Hi, great question!  Yes, this is working as intended.  The description of the Darth Traya (character) Isolate skill is as follows:

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Isolation: Can't gain buffs*; can't attack or gain positive effects out of turn; allies can't attack or gain positive effects during this unit's turn. Used against Raid Bosses: Can't gain buffs; characters attacking this unit gain Critical Damage Up and Health Steal Up for 1 turn

*Positive effects include:

Turn Meter Gain

Health Recovery

Protection Recovery

Assist Attack

Buffs

Revive

Ally Dispel

Health Equalization

Cooldown reduction

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If an isolated character on your team is attacked, this would not prevent General Kenobi from gaining taunt.  Since it is not the isolated character's turn, he/she cannot gain any buffs, but there is nothing in the Isolate description that would prevent GK from gaining buffs.  He still "sees" another character receiving a critical hit, so his unique skill will still act as normal.  

I find that I tend to assume that an Isolated character is in a bubble, and anything that happens to/from that character cannot have any influence on the other members of your team - but that is not wholly accurate.  A great example is that you can use Grand Admiral Thrawn's "Grand Admiral Command" skill to switch turn meter with an Isolated character, since switching turn meter is not prohibited by Isolate.  

[Acrofales]

@GladOS-013I was almost convinced that this was the case: the debuff "falls off" when the toon dies, and can thus be revived. However, that is just plain inconsistent with the one other debuff we have that also prevents revive: death mark. Death mark ensures NO revive mechanism can be used on that toon, not only self revives. Both isolate and death mark say they prevent revive. Death mark does, isolate doesn't. Therefore, one of the two is bugged.

[GladOS-013]

Hi, good discussion! I can't actually find an in-game description of the Deathmark mechanics for comparison.

@CG_MindTricks should this be flagged as a bug - that the game provides no description of Deathmark - it should be associated with Death Trooper's "Terminate" ability, since that's the only character that applies this debuff?

In the meantime, my understanding of Deathmark is that characters that died with Deathmark (similar to characters who died from Death Trooper's Terminate or Nihilus' Annihilate) cannot be revived at any point.

Isolate only prevents characters from being revived *while they are Isolated and it is not their turn.* It doesn't completely prevent revive - if Darth Sion has Held by Hatred and Isolate and he dies on his turn (for example, from burning, damage over time, or enemy counterattack), he will revive himself despite the Isolate. The difference between these two mechanics is that Annihilate (and ostensibly Deathmark) provide a "cannot ever be revived" tag on the character when it dies. Isolate does not provide a similar tag, and once the character is no longer Isolated, it can be revived.

I think the reason many players expect this behavior is because Isolate in the Sith Raid acts like this - and prevents a character from ever being revived.

[CG_MindTricks]

Hey, so the description of Deathmark from Death Trooper can be found in battle when applied and it reads the following:
"Deathmark: Targeted by enemies, takes extra damage when attacked, can't Revive, is removed if unit gains Stealth."

As for the question of Isolate preventing revives or not, I will ask for clarification and get back on it once I get an answer.

Thank you.

[Acrofales]

Thanks @CG_MindTricks! I'll close my thread. I wasn't sure this one would get looked at as the author marked it as solved.

Just to reply to @GladOS-013:

Yeah, isolated toons can revive during their turn. Therefore if Sion dies to dots, or gets countered to death, he can revive. However, once they are dead, it is clearly not their turn, and therefore to be consistent with deathmark isolate should prevent them from reviving.

The only thing I can think of is that only one target can be isolated at a time. I don't know if anybody has tested that: isolate and kill GMY. Then don't reapply isolate. If Jolee fails to revive GMY then perhaps that is what is happening. However, I would find this slightly weird and incredibly confusing behaviour (and it wouldn't be consistent with Fracture, which does not grant Thrawn increased counter chance once the fractured character has died).

In general, this just exacerbates the entire problem that is reviving in the game right now. There are two many different "types" of reviving, and too many different "types" of ways to prevent it, which makes their interactions incredibly complex.

[GladOS-013]

Indeed, skills and their interactions get more complicated over time.

New characters in this game will have to keep introducing new mechanics, or changing the way they interact with previous mechanics to keep the game "fresh", but this inevitably increases the complexity of the game.

Isolate is problematic in that many players think an Isolated character can't have *any* interaction with other members of his team, when in fact the game only limits very specific interactions. A great example is Grand Admiral Thrawn's skill "Grand Admiral's Command" - you can still switch turn meter with an Isolated character - because he's not *gaining turn meter* - his turn meter is *switching* with another. To me that was very non-intuitive, because I assumed the Isolated character couldn't interact with anyone else.

Similarly, what statuses exist on a dead character? Does it retain all buffs/debuffs that it had at the time of defeat, only to remove them upon revival, or are all buffs/debuffs removed at the time of defeat? Is the "cannot revive" tag (from Annihilate/Terminate/Deathmark) the only modifier that can exist on defeated characters?

As the game gets more complicated, the answers to these questions may become more relevant.

[CG_MindTricks]

Hi all, so I asked for further clarification on this topic and typically, if the unit who has Isolate dies, they will always be able to be revived, because death clears Isolate.
If its an activated ability that causes the revive (Daka, Jolee), and its the unit doing the revive that has Isolate, it should be blocked.

If there are any other questions specific scenarios would help figure it out better. So if you are able to provide a video or a screenshot with explanation it would be great.

Thank you.