Re: [TO TEST] Gendered pronouns not matching up w/new CAS

by crinrict
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[BY DESIGN] Gendered pronouns not matching up w/new CAS

[ Edited ]
★★★ Newbie

Hey all! Sorry if this has already been posted, but I've noticed that with the new gender options the pronouns used in game don't always match up. 

 

For instance I made a sim, Sarah, who had a masculine frame/feminine clothing, and when I was customizing her relationships, I had the option to make her either the brother or husband of my other sim, Lia. And once I started playing, whenever Sarah went to work she would come home with a notification that "he" had done well/earned a promotion/whatever, which was pretty disconcerting.

 

I feel like there should be a 'choose pronoun' option in the new CAS, too, where you can select she/her/hers, he/him/his, or they/them/theirs, to keep this from happening-- then the game would know whether to say sister, brother, or sibling, too.

 

Maybe there could even be a custom pronoun option, where you could type in the pronoun of your choice and it would work like the names do, filling in the pronoun provided wherever a pronoun is needed in-game! (for pronouns like xe/xem/xyr, ze/hir/hirs, ey/em/eirs etc)

 

It's such a great step forward to be able to make gender neutral and trans sims, but it's not so great when the game misgenders them...

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Re: [TO TEST] Gendered pronouns not matching up w/new CAS

[ Edited ]
Hero

That's what I'm saying and I'm not considering this a bug.

 

This is something for the feedback section: http://forums.thesims.com/en_US/categories/the-sims-4-feedback

Good Luck
Crin

Trennlinie

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Please only contact me via PM when asked to do so.



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Re: gendered pronouns not matching up w/new CAS

[ Edited ]
Hero

Just to be sure, you choose her gender to be female ?

 

@giddygeekgrin

 

EDIT: Trying to duplicate this and for me, female Sims are still the same pronoun as before in CAS (didn't test the game).

 

Are you playing in english ? Is it happening for every Sim you make ?

Good Luck
Crin

Trennlinie

I don't work or have any association with EA. I give advice to the best of my knowledge and cannot be held responsible for any damage done to your computer/game.
Please only contact me via PM when asked to do so.



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Message 2 of 10 (5,584 Views)

Re: gendered pronouns not matching up w/new CAS

Hero

Hi @giddygeekgrin

 

I've tried to duplicate this and couldn't

 

Is this still happening for you ?

Good Luck
Crin

Trennlinie

I don't work or have any association with EA. I give advice to the best of my knowledge and cannot be held responsible for any damage done to your computer/game.
Please only contact me via PM when asked to do so.



Important Threads


Message 3 of 10 (5,537 Views)

Re: [TO TEST] Gendered pronouns not matching up w/new CAS

★★ Guide

I agree that choosing a Sim's pronoun and other gendered words should be an option, but I don't think this is a bug. The game currently selects the gendered words to use based on the body frame selected. It's not ideal for sure, but probably by design.

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Re: [TO TEST] Gendered pronouns not matching up w/new CAS

[ Edited ]
Hero

 

I think it should be based on their gender.

 

Not sure what gender the Sim of OP is though

Good Luck
Crin

Trennlinie

I don't work or have any association with EA. I give advice to the best of my knowledge and cannot be held responsible for any damage done to your computer/game.
Please only contact me via PM when asked to do so.



Important Threads


Message 5 of 10 (5,525 Views)

Re: [TO TEST] Gendered pronouns not matching up w/new CAS

[ Edited ]
★★ Guide

What the OP is saying (I believe) is that they attempted to make a transgender woman by choosing a masculine body frame with a feminine name and clothing. But the game equates masculine body frame to male pronouns (he/him) and family relations (father/son). It's not a bug exactly, but it's definitely not optimal as it's misgendering to force a person with a masculine body frame to use male pronouns if they don't want to.

 

The workaround I'd suggest for creating a trans woman would be to use the feminine body frame and set the options to use the toilet standing up and make others pregnant rather than getting pregnant (or turn off the ability to get or make others pregnant for that Sim altogether). It's still not perfect, but that is what I would do (I'm a non-binary trans person myself for the record).

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Re: [TO TEST] Gendered pronouns not matching up w/new CAS

Hero

@giddygeekgrin Could you clarify what gender your Sim had ?

Good Luck
Crin

Trennlinie

I don't work or have any association with EA. I give advice to the best of my knowledge and cannot be held responsible for any damage done to your computer/game.
Please only contact me via PM when asked to do so.



Important Threads


Message 7 of 10 (5,492 Views)

Re: [TO TEST] Gendered pronouns not matching up w/new CAS

★★ Guide

@funcrunch wrote:

What the OP is saying (I believe) is that they attempted to make a transgender woman by choosing a masculine body frame with a feminine name and clothing. But the game equates masculine body frame to male pronouns (he/him) and family relations (father/son). It's not a bug exactly, but it's definitely not optimal as it's misgendering to force a person with a masculine body frame to use male pronouns if they don't want to.

 

The workaround I'd suggest for creating a trans woman would be to use the feminine body frame and set the options to use the toilet standing up and make others pregnant rather than getting pregnant (or turn off the ability to get or make others pregnant for that Sim altogether). It's still not perfect, but that is what I would do (I'm a non-binary trans person myself for the record).


Update: I changed a young adult Sim's body frame from masculine to feminine. The body visibly changed, but unfortunately the game continued to use masculine signifiers: "He" and "His" in notifications, "Brother" in the Sim's sister's family tree, etc. This Sim was also still forced to use the men's room at a lot that had gendered doors. I also noticed that in CAS, I was still able to make this Sim topless, whereas with Sims that were created (or born in-game) as female, this cannot be done (a bra for teens and older, or another top for children, is always shown).

So it seems that if a Sim is created or "born" male, the game always considers them to be male, and likewise for Sims created or born female. This is seriously problematic. I've taken a lot of screenshots and will create a story on this soon to illustrate the problem; stay tuned.

Message 8 of 10 (5,467 Views)

Re: [TO TEST] Gendered pronouns not matching up w/new CAS

[ Edited ]
Hero

That's what I'm saying and I'm not considering this a bug.

 

This is something for the feedback section: http://forums.thesims.com/en_US/categories/the-sims-4-feedback

Good Luck
Crin

Trennlinie

I don't work or have any association with EA. I give advice to the best of my knowledge and cannot be held responsible for any damage done to your computer/game.
Please only contact me via PM when asked to do so.



Important Threads


Message 9 of 10 (6,111 Views)

Re: [TO TEST] Gendered pronouns not matching up w/new CAS

[ Edited ]
★★ Guide

I know you already closed this issue, but I have to make a quick correction/clarification. When I first went into "Create Sim" to change the male Sim's body frame from Masculine to Feminine, I neglected to click the female gender symbol. Having just now done so, this Sim is now correctly listed as a "Sister" (female term), even when I choose a Masculine body frame for her. Still have to go back into game for more testing, but I believe this solves a large part of the problem (though it would still be nice to have non-binary pronouns as well, that is indeed something for the Feedback forum).

 

ETA: Unfortunately when I changed the gender symbol from male to female, all of the outfits I'd created for this Sim were lost.

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