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Bonjour à tous, je suis noixdecitron. Je ne suis pas développeur ou joueur pro, mais j'ai 1190 matchs d'arènes à mon actif et plus de 1000 heures de jeu. Je vais donc profiter de mon expérience pour vous donner quelques explications sur comment fonctionne le système classé sur Apex. Je précise que chaque chiffre donné, chaque observation a été vérifié et est sourcé dans les fichiers liés à cet article.
\n\nLe calcul de points se fait automatiquement par IA. Réinstaller votre jeu, changer votre RAM ou réparer les fichiers du jeu ne fera pas changer votre nombre de points. Peu de risque que ça « bug » puisque c’est un calcule binaire et basique de vos performances dans la partie. De ce fait à moins que le système soit cassé pour l’ensemble des joueurs dans le monde de manière simultané, il n’y a aucune raison de croire que le nombre de points gagnés ou perdus est lié à un bug, aussi frustrant soit-il.
\n\n\nIl est tout à fait normal de ne pas avoir le même rang, car les résultats des saisons précédentes entre en considération. Pour vous donner un ordre d’idée avec des amis nous faisions des arènes classés durant la saison 12. J’étais Platine II et eux Diamant 4. Lors de nos 10 matchs de classement de la saison 13, dans le lobby, nous avions nos icônes Platine et Diamant à côté de nos pseudos et alors que nous avons fait ensemble nos 10 matchs de classement ils ont terminés Or 1 et moi Or 3, bien que nous avions le même nombre de victoires et de défaites. Tout simplement parce que la saison précédente ils avaient 2 niveaux de plus et cet écart est resté sur la saison suivante.
\n\n\nIl y a plusieurs choses à prendre en compte dans un calcul de points. Les résultats du match (nombre de dégâts, de kills ou de KO par exemple) et peut être mais à confirmer les actions en jeu, par exemple les résurrection d’alliés ou la prise de matériaux pendant le match qui pourraient (non certains) influer aussi sur le score caché du joueur car il démontre un travail d’équipe et d’actions spécifiques à vos parties, ceci pouvant expliquer d'une part la différence de points. Après tout il serait normal de récompenser un joueur qui en fait d’avantage pour son équipe
D’autres part, et j’y reviendrais, le nombre de parties jouées sur la saison a un impact colossale sur les points que vous allez gagner.
Tout est relatif parce que vous ne pouvez pas toujours analyser 100% du temps l'ensemble des actions de vos adversaires, mais le matchmaking n’est pas magique. La plupart du temps il vous mettra face à des ennemis de votre niveau, mais si le système ne trouve personne avec un niveau exacte au vôtre il continuera d’étendre sa recherche jusque’à la disponibilité d’un joueur ayant le niveau le plus proche du vôtre, même si ça se traduit par un ou deux rangs d’écart. Sans ça le matchmaking pourrait durer plusieurs minutes à chaque fois. Pour y palier essayez de jouer à des jours ou des créneaux horaires différents afin d’avoir davantage de joueurs de connectés, jusque’à trouver une période qui vous corresponde le plus. Plus vous allez monter en classement moins il y aura d’adversaire disponibles. J’évite de jouer entre 16h30 et 18h30 par exemple, ce n’est pas la même population de joueurs qu’en cours de journée ou le soir.
\n\nPour le moment je suis Platine IV sur la saison 13 en arène, et je suis dans le top 1,66% monde des joueurs. Ce qui signifie que 98,34% des joueurs ont un rang inférieur au miens, limitant ainsi les adversaires possibles face à moi. Résultat je tombe systématiquement contre des escouades entières de Predator disposant de plusieurs badges Prédator chacun quand je tag avec un ami alors que nous sommes tous les deux Platine (3 pour moi, 2 pour lui) et que nous n'avons jamais dépassé Diamant IV. Quand on tag chacun de noter côté le niveau en face est un peu plus proche de la réalité de notre niveau.
\n\n\nEncore une fois tout est relatif. Les gens ont souvent tendances à se surestimer, à ne pas se remettre en question, à ne pas accepter qu’ils ont réalisés une mauvaise action. Il est probable que vous ayez le même niveau que vos coéquipiers (ou que si vous avez un compte secondaire vous êtes avec des gens qui débutent vraiment alors que vous avez déjà de l’expérience à côté) et que vous manquiez de recul pour analyser leurs actions. Pour faire un rappel du point précédent, il est aussi possible que lors de votre matchmaking le jeu ai essayé de compenser comme il pouvait le niveau de vos coéquipiers en fonction du votre vis à vis des adversaires. Par exemple :
\n\nImaginez que vous êtes un très bon joueur avec un score caché (MMR) de 80 et que le résultat moyen des deux équipes soit de 130 :
\n\nVotre équipe :
\n\nVous : 80
\nJoueur 1 : 20
\nJoueur 2 : 30
\nTotal : 130
\n\nEquipe adverse :
\n\nJoueur 1 : 90
\nJoueur 2 : 20
\nJoueur 3 : 10
\nTotal : 130
\n\nLe matchmaking n’ayant pas réussi à trouver 5 joueurs ne niveaux équivalents, il a fait le choix de répartir les bas niveaux et les hauts niveaux. Ainsi il y a deux joueurs (vous et un autre) avec un niveau élevé (80 et 90) dans l’exemple dans la partie mais un dans chaque équipe pour équilibré. Pour l'algorithme d'Apex le travail est réussi, il a mis en relation deux équipes équilibrés. En fonction du score de chacun il a compensé avec des joueurs ayant un niveau très faible à côté, ce qui peut donner un sentiment que le niveau n’est pas homogène dans la partie. j'en reviens à un point précédent, si vous voulez des joueurs avec un MMR exacte au votre le matchmaking pourrait durer très très longtemps à chaque partie.
\n\nÀ titre personnel il n’est pas rare quand je joue solo que je fasse entre 2800 et 4000 de dégâts en arène quand mes coéquipiers n’auront fait qu’entre 900 et 2400 de dégâts.
\n\nPour d'autres détails, un post épinglé parle d’ailleurs du MMR, à lire ici.
D’après l’analyse que j’ai faite sur la saison 12 et la saison 13, le nombre de points diminue progressivement POUR CHAQUE PARTIE JOUÉE. En, effet (voir pièce jointe le tableau entier y est) si sur la première victoire je gagnais 110 points, sur la troisième j’en gagnais 108 donc 2 points de moins pour deux parties jouées. Cette extrapolation se vérifie sur plusieurs dizaines de parties. Mon tableau comprends 65 parties jouées et je gagne à présent environ 40 points par victoire. (110-65 = 45 points, on est donc à peu près dans ce que je gagne)
J’ai remarqué qu’il pouvait y avoir des variations en fonction du nombre de victoires ou de défaits consécutives ou en fonction du niveau des adversaires. Si vous avez gagné 3/0 contre des adversaires avec 2 rangs en dessous du votre (Argent si vous êtes Platine par exemple) vous gagnerez moins de points (76 dans mon exemple) que la partie d’avant contre des adversaires plus fort que vous (90 points gagnés) (Respectivement partie 25 et 26 du tableau joint à ce message)
Ainsi, si vous souhaitez obtenir un rang précis en arène, il faut remporter un maximum de parties le plus rapidement possible car plus le temps passera plus ça sera compliqué. Lors de la saison 12 alors que j’avais fait plus de 400 matchs je je gagnais que 16 points par partie gagnée (et entre -12 et -24 par parties perdues) alors que mes équipiers réguliers, ayant fait 2 à 3x moins de matchs d’arènes classés sur la saison, gagnait 2 à 3x plus de points à la fin de chaque partie, leur permettant ainsi de me rattraper, et de me dépasser de deux rangs. * impossible à récupérer puisque quand je gagnais 16 points ils en gagnaient entre 32 et 48.
\n\n\nC’est un score caché qui, ajouté à votre rang (Or 3, Argent 2…) permet de définir précisément votre niveau. On peut certes regretter que ce score soit caché car ne pas comprendre engendre une frustration, mais c’est lui qui va affiner votre rang en temps réel à chaque partie et vous permettre de trouver du mieux possible des adversaires de votre niveau (encore une fois j’en reviens à un des points précédents, selon l’heure et le jour où vous allez tag).
\n\n\nDeux choses. La première, ne pas oublier que le classé c’est du classé. On ne « mérite » pas un rang parce qu’on le souhaite. On le voit beaucoup avec le nouveau système de classé en Battle Royal de la saison 13, des joueurs auparavant Diamant ou Master n’arrivent pas à dépasser Or à présent et ça engendre beaucoup de frustration. Keep calm, je sais que c’est frustrant, je suis moi aussi un joueur ayant passé plus de 1000 heures sur Apex. Mais votre niveau et votre rang sont ce qu’ils sont, il n’y a pas à avoir honte d’être Or, Platine ou Diamant. Evidemment que ça ferait plaisir de finir une saison Master, d’avoir un badge et une fumée de saut. Mais dites vous que le jeu possédait déjà plus de 100 millions de joueurs en 2021, et plus de 13 millions de joueurs actifs CHAQUE SEMAINE. Même si il n’y a que 1 ou 2% de joueurs plus fort que vous, ça fait tout de même entre 130’000 et 260’000 joueurs chaque semaine plus fort que vous, et sans tenir compte de l’évolution de joueurs énorme depuis 2022, avec une base de 100 millions de joueurs, ça fait entre 1 million et 2 millions de joueurs ayant un meilleur niveau que le votre.
\n\nCe n’est rien, le temps passé en jeu vous fera progresser, ces joueurs ne sont pas devenus meilleurs juste en lançant Origin ou leur console, ils l’ont fait en se remettant en question, en testant des légendes, en passant du temps en terrain d’entrainement, en regardant des steamers Pro jouer, en regardant le style de jeux des compétitions ALGS. Je comprends la frustration, mais vous ne pourrez que vous améliorer.
Le second point : Jouer avec des amis. Je ne compte plus le nombre de joueurs toxiques en jeu quand je joue seul. Je dois report presque une partie sur deux en arène quand je joue solo tellement le comportement (en vocal ou en chat) est horrible. Si vous jouer solo vous serez dans des équipes de deux joueurs jouant ensemble avec leurs habitudes et leurs styles de jeu, probablement en vocal avec une autre app donc vous ne pourrez pas les entendre, ce qui compliquera le travail d’équipe si en face vous tombez sur une équipe complète. Idem si vous êtes seul et que vous êtes avec deux autres personnes seule, vous aurez un désavantage si dans l’équipe d’en face il y aura au moins 2 joueurs jouant ensemble.
Merci pour votre temps, pour votre lecture, et je précise que chaque chiffre donné, chaque observation a été vérifié et est sourcé dans les fichiers liés à cet article. Encore une fois aucune moralisation, je reste également un joueur. Courage, vous y arriverez !
","body@stringLength":"12122","rawBody":"Bonjour à tous, je suis noixdecitron. Je ne suis pas développeur ou joueur pro, mais j'ai 1190 matchs d'arènes à mon actif et plus de 1000 heures de jeu. Je vais donc profiter de mon expérience pour vous donner quelques explications sur comment fonctionne le système classé sur Apex. Je précise que chaque chiffre donné, chaque observation a été vérifié et est sourcé dans les fichiers liés à cet article.
\n\nLe calcul de points se fait automatiquement par IA. Réinstaller votre jeu, changer votre RAM ou réparer les fichiers du jeu ne fera pas changer votre nombre de points. Peu de risque que ça « bug » puisque c’est un calcule binaire et basique de vos performances dans la partie. De ce fait à moins que le système soit cassé pour l’ensemble des joueurs dans le monde de manière simultané, il n’y a aucune raison de croire que le nombre de points gagnés ou perdus est lié à un bug, aussi frustrant soit-il.
\n\n\nIl est tout à fait normal de ne pas avoir le même rang, car les résultats des saisons précédentes entre en considération. Pour vous donner un ordre d’idée avec des amis nous faisions des arènes classés durant la saison 12. J’étais Platine II et eux Diamant 4. Lors de nos 10 matchs de classement de la saison 13, dans le lobby, nous avions nos icônes Platine et Diamant à côté de nos pseudos et alors que nous avons fait ensemble nos 10 matchs de classement ils ont terminés Or 1 et moi Or 3, bien que nous avions le même nombre de victoires et de défaites. Tout simplement parce que la saison précédente ils avaient 2 niveaux de plus et cet écart est resté sur la saison suivante.
\n\n\nIl y a plusieurs choses à prendre en compte dans un calcul de points. Les résultats du match (nombre de dégâts, de kills ou de KO par exemple) et peut être mais à confirmer les actions en jeu, par exemple les résurrection d’alliés ou la prise de matériaux pendant le match qui pourraient (non certains) influer aussi sur le score caché du joueur car il démontre un travail d’équipe et d’actions spécifiques à vos parties, ceci pouvant expliquer d'une part la différence de points. Après tout il serait normal de récompenser un joueur qui en fait d’avantage pour son équipe
D’autres part, et j’y reviendrais, le nombre de parties jouées sur la saison a un impact colossale sur les points que vous allez gagner.
Tout est relatif parce que vous ne pouvez pas toujours analyser 100% du temps l'ensemble des actions de vos adversaires, mais le matchmaking n’est pas magique. La plupart du temps il vous mettra face à des ennemis de votre niveau, mais si le système ne trouve personne avec un niveau exacte au vôtre il continuera d’étendre sa recherche jusque’à la disponibilité d’un joueur ayant le niveau le plus proche du vôtre, même si ça se traduit par un ou deux rangs d’écart. Sans ça le matchmaking pourrait durer plusieurs minutes à chaque fois. Pour y palier essayez de jouer à des jours ou des créneaux horaires différents afin d’avoir davantage de joueurs de connectés, jusque’à trouver une période qui vous corresponde le plus. Plus vous allez monter en classement moins il y aura d’adversaire disponibles. J’évite de jouer entre 16h30 et 18h30 par exemple, ce n’est pas la même population de joueurs qu’en cours de journée ou le soir.
\n\nPour le moment je suis Platine IV sur la saison 13 en arène, et je suis dans le top 1,66% monde des joueurs. Ce qui signifie que 98,34% des joueurs ont un rang inférieur au miens, limitant ainsi les adversaires possibles face à moi. Résultat je tombe systématiquement contre des escouades entières de Predator disposant de plusieurs badges Prédator chacun quand je tag avec un ami alors que nous sommes tous les deux Platine (3 pour moi, 2 pour lui) et que nous n'avons jamais dépassé Diamant IV. Quand on tag chacun de noter côté le niveau en face est un peu plus proche de la réalité de notre niveau.
\n\n\nEncore une fois tout est relatif. Les gens ont souvent tendances à se surestimer, à ne pas se remettre en question, à ne pas accepter qu’ils ont réalisés une mauvaise action. Il est probable que vous ayez le même niveau que vos coéquipiers (ou que si vous avez un compte secondaire vous êtes avec des gens qui débutent vraiment alors que vous avez déjà de l’expérience à côté) et que vous manquiez de recul pour analyser leurs actions. Pour faire un rappel du point précédent, il est aussi possible que lors de votre matchmaking le jeu ai essayé de compenser comme il pouvait le niveau de vos coéquipiers en fonction du votre vis à vis des adversaires. Par exemple :
\n\nImaginez que vous êtes un très bon joueur avec un score caché (MMR) de 80 et que le résultat moyen des deux équipes soit de 130 :
\n\nVotre équipe :
\n\nVous : 80
\nJoueur 1 : 20
\nJoueur 2 : 30
\nTotal : 130
\n\nEquipe adverse :
\n\nJoueur 1 : 90
\nJoueur 2 : 20
\nJoueur 3 : 10
\nTotal : 130
\n\nLe matchmaking n’ayant pas réussi à trouver 5 joueurs ne niveaux équivalents, il a fait le choix de répartir les bas niveaux et les hauts niveaux. Ainsi il y a deux joueurs (vous et un autre) avec un niveau élevé (80 et 90) dans l’exemple dans la partie mais un dans chaque équipe pour équilibré. Pour l'algorithme d'Apex le travail est réussi, il a mis en relation deux équipes équilibrés. En fonction du score de chacun il a compensé avec des joueurs ayant un niveau très faible à côté, ce qui peut donner un sentiment que le niveau n’est pas homogène dans la partie. j'en reviens à un point précédent, si vous voulez des joueurs avec un MMR exacte au votre le matchmaking pourrait durer très très longtemps à chaque partie.
\n\nÀ titre personnel il n’est pas rare quand je joue solo que je fasse entre 2800 et 4000 de dégâts en arène quand mes coéquipiers n’auront fait qu’entre 900 et 2400 de dégâts.
\n\nPour d'autres détails, un post épinglé parle d’ailleurs du MMR, à lire ici.
D’après l’analyse que j’ai faite sur la saison 12 et la saison 13, le nombre de points diminue progressivement POUR CHAQUE PARTIE JOUÉE. En, effet (voir pièce jointe le tableau entier y est) si sur la première victoire je gagnais 110 points, sur la troisième j’en gagnais 108 donc 2 points de moins pour deux parties jouées. Cette extrapolation se vérifie sur plusieurs dizaines de parties. Mon tableau comprends 65 parties jouées et je gagne à présent environ 40 points par victoire. (110-65 = 45 points, on est donc à peu près dans ce que je gagne)
J’ai remarqué qu’il pouvait y avoir des variations en fonction du nombre de victoires ou de défaits consécutives ou en fonction du niveau des adversaires. Si vous avez gagné 3/0 contre des adversaires avec 2 rangs en dessous du votre (Argent si vous êtes Platine par exemple) vous gagnerez moins de points (76 dans mon exemple) que la partie d’avant contre des adversaires plus fort que vous (90 points gagnés) (Respectivement partie 25 et 26 du tableau joint à ce message)
Ainsi, si vous souhaitez obtenir un rang précis en arène, il faut remporter un maximum de parties le plus rapidement possible car plus le temps passera plus ça sera compliqué. Lors de la saison 12 alors que j’avais fait plus de 400 matchs je je gagnais que 16 points par partie gagnée (et entre -12 et -24 par parties perdues) alors que mes équipiers réguliers, ayant fait 2 à 3x moins de matchs d’arènes classés sur la saison, gagnait 2 à 3x plus de points à la fin de chaque partie, leur permettant ainsi de me rattraper, et de me dépasser de deux rangs. * impossible à récupérer puisque quand je gagnais 16 points ils en gagnaient entre 32 et 48.
\n\n\nC’est un score caché qui, ajouté à votre rang (Or 3, Argent 2…) permet de définir précisément votre niveau. On peut certes regretter que ce score soit caché car ne pas comprendre engendre une frustration, mais c’est lui qui va affiner votre rang en temps réel à chaque partie et vous permettre de trouver du mieux possible des adversaires de votre niveau (encore une fois j’en reviens à un des points précédents, selon l’heure et le jour où vous allez tag).
\n\n\nDeux choses. La première, ne pas oublier que le classé c’est du classé. On ne « mérite » pas un rang parce qu’on le souhaite. On le voit beaucoup avec le nouveau système de classé en Battle Royal de la saison 13, des joueurs auparavant Diamant ou Master n’arrivent pas à dépasser Or à présent et ça engendre beaucoup de frustration. Keep calm, je sais que c’est frustrant, je suis moi aussi un joueur ayant passé plus de 1000 heures sur Apex. Mais votre niveau et votre rang sont ce qu’ils sont, il n’y a pas à avoir honte d’être Or, Platine ou Diamant. Evidemment que ça ferait plaisir de finir une saison Master, d’avoir un badge et une fumée de saut. Mais dites vous que le jeu possédait déjà plus de 100 millions de joueurs en 2021, et plus de 13 millions de joueurs actifs CHAQUE SEMAINE. Même si il n’y a que 1 ou 2% de joueurs plus fort que vous, ça fait tout de même entre 130’000 et 260’000 joueurs chaque semaine plus fort que vous, et sans tenir compte de l’évolution de joueurs énorme depuis 2022, avec une base de 100 millions de joueurs, ça fait entre 1 million et 2 millions de joueurs ayant un meilleur niveau que le votre.
\n\nCe n’est rien, le temps passé en jeu vous fera progresser, ces joueurs ne sont pas devenus meilleurs juste en lançant Origin ou leur console, ils l’ont fait en se remettant en question, en testant des légendes, en passant du temps en terrain d’entrainement, en regardant des steamers Pro jouer, en regardant le style de jeux des compétitions ALGS. Je comprends la frustration, mais vous ne pourrez que vous améliorer.
Le second point : Jouer avec des amis. Je ne compte plus le nombre de joueurs toxiques en jeu quand je joue seul. Je dois report presque une partie sur deux en arène quand je joue solo tellement le comportement (en vocal ou en chat) est horrible. Si vous jouer solo vous serez dans des équipes de deux joueurs jouant ensemble avec leurs habitudes et leurs styles de jeu, probablement en vocal avec une autre app donc vous ne pourrez pas les entendre, ce qui compliquera le travail d’équipe si en face vous tombez sur une équipe complète. Idem si vous êtes seul et que vous êtes avec deux autres personnes seule, vous aurez un désavantage si dans l’équipe d’en face il y aura au moins 2 joueurs jouant ensemble.
Merci pour votre temps, pour votre lecture, et je précise que chaque chiffre donné, chaque observation a été vérifié et est sourcé dans les fichiers liés à cet article. Encore une fois aucune moralisation, je reste également un joueur. Courage, vous y arriverez !
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Je ne suis pas développeur ou joueur pro, mais j'ai 1190 matchs d'arènes à mon actif et plus de 1000 heures de jeu. 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Alors j'aimerai partager aussi mon expérience en tant que joueur team et soloQ...
« Apex BUG et ne me donne pas les points que je mérite »
Là dessus je suis d'accord avec toi, les points sont assez relatif par rapport au niveau de jeu du joueur.
« Avec des amis nous avons fait nos 10 matchs de classements et nous n’avons pas le même rang »
Là dessus je me plain de l'inverse justement... Quand tu passe 10 games à PL comme un fou tes deux mates et que tu fini avec le même rank voir moins j'aimerai des explications... La saison passé nous avions tous deux leagues d'écart, moi étant Diams et eux gold.
« Je ne tombe que contre des gars plus fort que moi »
Je n'ai jamais était master ou préda et pourtant j'en croise à chaque games en face.
« Mon équipe est nulle et en face ils sont fort »
Littéralement une game sur deux les mates sont littéralement nul à *... Quand tu est le seul à +2k, multiples kills et down quand les deux autres sont toujours à 200 sans rien y'a un soucis... Sans parler des rank! Je suis actuellement plat (justement à cause de ces matchmakings à vomir qui ne veulent qu'une chose, que ses joueurs quittent le jeu...) et je me retrouver avec des silver et bronze? Comment est-ce possible.
Si on considère le MMR, la solution actuellement apporté par apex est déplorable, on ne fait pas des games classés pour se retrouver avec des coéquipiers théoriquement jusque 10 fois moins fort.
Une solution contre les joueurs toxique comme tu le dis serait justement de virer cette moyenne de MMR et de placer les joueurs avec d'autres EQUIVALENT!
Aujourd'hui, le jeu me donne envie de vomir à cause de ça, c'est triste et c'est certainement pourquoi l'arène est déserté par la comu...
Nous sommes nombreux à ne pas avoir 6h à passer par jour pour jouer à ce jeux et quand tu en passe la moitié à perdre tes games à cause des placements c'est triste...
Petit exemple, je suis plat 4 on le rappel...
Réflexion faite, ce jeu pue la *. Après une centaines de games solo Q en arene, c'est de pire en pire....
En tant que Diamant, je me retrouve avec du double bronze qui ne claquent pas plus de 100 dégât sur les trois manches.
Bordel mais qu'un mec du service client lisent les commentaires de ses utilisateurs! Ce n'est plus possible, l'arène est morte, personne n'y joue donc * LES CJE bougez votre * et faites votre boulot!
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