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Gidoruu's avatar
7 years ago

The Wingman and Peacekeeper are objectively overpowered

Its safe to say these two guns are ruining the game right now on PC. They are too strong and pretty much everyone who is aware of this is using them every single game. This also has the effect of mak...

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Wingman and Peacekeeper are objectively overpowered","id":"message:8537475","entityType":"FORUM_TOPIC","eventPath":"category:apex-legends-en/category:ea-forums-en/community:tghpe58374board:apex-legends-feedback-en/message:8537475","revisionNum":1,"repliesCount":42,"author":{"__ref":"User:user:2882512"},"depth":0,"hasGivenKudo":false,"board":{"__ref":"Forum:board:apex-legends-feedback-en"},"conversation":{"__ref":"Conversation:conversation:8537475"},"readOnly":false,"editFrozen":false,"showMoveIndicator":false,"moderationData":{"__ref":"ModerationData:moderation_data:8537475"},"body@stripHtml({\"truncateLength\":200})":" Its safe to say these two guns are ruining the game right now on PC. They are too strong and pretty much everyone who is aware of this is using them every single game. This also has the effect of mak...","body@stringLength":"2147","rawBody":"

Its safe to say these two guns are ruining the game right now on PC. They are too strong and pretty much everyone who is aware of this is using them every single game. This also has the effect of making the game extremely boring playing against and with the same weapons every single match.

The Wingman.

  1.  This gun requires basically no attachments to be the strongest gun in the game. Most full auto weapons are SIGNIFICANTLY weaker without extended mags and have significantly higher recoil without other attachments. You can literally just pickup the base Wingman and be good to go.
  2.  The argument that the gun is 'only good if you can aim well so its balanced' is a terrible one. Essentially every gun in the game is terrible unless you can aim well. The high TTK in this game requires you to hit people with upwards of 10 bullets from a fully auto weapon so you cant get away with bad aim regardless of weapon
  3. Its harder to land all your shots with automatic weapons between the recoil, high strafe speed and game movement and high TTK because you have to constantly track your target and generally have low mag sizes. 
  4. The gun has basically no recoil, extremely high damage per shot especially headshots(only 10 less body shots than a sniper) and a high rate of fire. Its effective at most if not all effective combat ranges. For all these things the hipfire accuracy of the gun isnt even bad making it even more ridiculous.

The Peacekeeper
1. Again the gun requires no attachments to be god tier.

2. Basically as good as the Mastif a legendary drop weapon yet is so common that theres enough of them for every single player on the server

3. The range on this gun is absurd and the choke basically lets you snipe with it

4. Close quarters with an SMG i have to perfectly land every single shot on a fast moving target while controlling recoil to kill someone, often times requiring at least one reload. Meanwhile someone with a Peacekeeper just has to hipfire twice in my general direction to nearly instantly kill me. Fair? Balanced? 

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The issue isn't skill, or lack there of. It's the overall usage of the weapons to the point that if you DON'T have one, you're gonna get mowed down by the guys that did. You can have all the skill with all the other weapons you want, but when that guy gets 1 lucky shot off from the wingman or the peacekeeper, it's basically over no matter how much you hit him.

Don't get me wrong, playing a little better as a team, working to your advantages, and picking and choosing when and where to engage is important. Of course it is, and yes using them to your advantage can win you a fight against someone with these weapons. It's not like I've never killed someone using a wingman or a peacekeeper before, it's not even that hard. The issue is that when you have one of these guns, you have a clear advantage in the fight, beyond skill, beyond equipment, and beyond teamwork.","body@stringLength":"1079","rawBody":"Honestly, I feel like you're missing the overall point. The fact is, the majority of people do almost nothing but pick up these 2 guns. Yes get good, aim better, etc etc, blah blah blah.

The issue isn't skill, or lack there of. It's the overall usage of the weapons to the point that if you DON'T have one, you're gonna get mowed down by the guys that did. You can have all the skill with all the other weapons you want, but when that guy gets 1 lucky shot off from the wingman or the peacekeeper, it's basically over no matter how much you hit him.

Don't get me wrong, playing a little better as a team, working to your advantages, and picking and choosing when and where to engage is important. Of course it is, and yes using them to your advantage can win you a fight against someone with these weapons. It's not like I've never killed someone using a wingman or a peacekeeper before, it's not even that hard. The issue is that when you have one of these guns, you have a clear advantage in the fight, beyond skill, beyond equipment, and beyond teamwork.","kudosSumWeight":4,"repliesCount":8,"postTime":"2019-02-24T04:41:28.819-08:00","images":{"__typename":"AssociatedImageConnection","edges":[],"totalCount":0,"pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null}},"attachments":{"__typename":"AttachmentConnection","pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null},"edges":[]},"timeToRead":1,"currentRevision":{"__ref":"Revision:revision:8537484_1"},"latestVersion":null,"metrics":{"__typename":"MessageMetrics","views":3415},"read":false,"visibilityScope":"PUBLIC","isEscalated":null,"placeholder":false,"originalMessageForPlaceholder":null,"messagePolicies":{"__typename":"MessagePolicies","canModerateSpamMessage":{"__typename":"PolicyResult","failureReason":{"__typename":"FailureReason","message":"error.lithium.policies.feature.moderation_spam.action.moderate_entity.allowed.accessDenied","key":"error.lithium.policies.feature.moderation_spam.action.moderate_entity.allowed.accessDenied","args":[]}}},"customFields":[],"replies":{"__typename":"MessageConnection","edges":[{"__typename":"MessageEdge","cursor":"MjUuNHwyLjF8aXwxMHwzOToxfGludCw4NTM3NDg2LDg1Mzc0ODY","node":{"__ref":"ForumReplyMessage:message:8537486"}},{"__typename":"MessageEdge","cursor":"MjUuNHwyLjF8aXwxMHwzOToxfGludCw4NTM3NDg2LDg1Mzc0ODk","node":{"__ref":"ForumReplyMessage:message:8537489"}},{"__typename":"MessageEdge","cursor":"MjUuNHwyLjF8aXwxMHwzOToxfGludCw4NTM3NDg2LDg1Mzc0OTA","node":{"__ref":"ForumReplyMessage:message:8537490"}},{"__typename":"MessageEdge","cursor":"MjUuNHwyLjF8aXwxMHwzOToxfGludCw4NTM3NDg2LDg1Mzc0OTE","node":{"__ref":"ForumReplyMessage:message:8537491"}}],"pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null}}},"CachedAsset:theme:customTheme1-1752639478692":{"__typename":"CachedAsset","id":"theme:customTheme1-1752639478692","value":{"id":"customTheme1","animation":{"fast":"150ms","normal":"250ms","slow":"500ms","slowest":"750ms","function":"cubic-bezier(0.07, 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I don't think these guns are unbalanced at all actually, you guys just need to get better. The TTK of everything except p2020, mozabique, and maybe eva-8 are virtually identical. The wingman with skullpiercer is 2 or 3 shot kill for headshots only which with its fire rate puts it on pretty much the same kill time as even a flatline all headshots, or a prowler all headshots with selectfire or the r301. The problem is if you use an automatic weapon it will have recoil, and someone with a revolver with good aim will kill you if miss half you magazine with an automatic weapon. You have to play smarter don't rush a shotgun so hard, communicate, aim better, you'll find the balance is pretty good for most guns. Complain about the wingman lol? Stand next to someone with the r99 and stuff their skull with that bullet hose, they pretty much evaporate. Smg fire fast with some recoil so you need good aim close quarters, shotguns are close quarters and the hop up is strong but takes time to charge (maybe remove the ability to keep it charged by aim spamming?) I've gotten killed because of the charge time many times I don't even use that choke when I use that gun so expect to die from a shotgun within 15 meters, Bursts should go for the head (maybe slightly less recoil on prowler burst mode? Or a barrel attachment to do so?) And use cover more for Christ's sake, you can't run out with a flatline miss a 3rd of your clip and expect not to be punished for it. I've killed good wingman users many times, I've killed good peacekeeper users many times. Good aim, tactics, learning what guns aire oder the what, and also gee come to think of it ITS A BATTLE ROYALE BASED OF GETTING GOOD LOOT, a full set up wingman will perform better than an automatic weapon with no barrel or stock attatchment.

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I don't think these guns are unbalanced at all actually, you guys just need to get better. The TTK of everything except p2020, mozabique, and maybe eva-8 are virtually identical. The wingman with skullpiercer is 2 or 3 shot kill for headshots only which with its fire rate puts it on pretty much the same kill time as even a flatline all headshots, or a prowler all headshots with selectfire or the r301. The problem is if you use an automatic weapon it will have recoil, and someone with a revolver with good aim will kill you if miss half you magazine with an automatic weapon. You have to play smarter don't rush a shotgun so hard, communicate, aim better, you'll find the balance is pretty good for most guns. Complain about the wingman lol? Stand next to someone with the r99 and stuff their skull with that bullet hose, they pretty much evaporate. Smg fire fast with some recoil so you need good aim close quarters, shotguns are close quarters and the hop up is strong but takes time to charge (maybe remove the ability to keep it charged by aim spamming?) I've gotten killed because of the charge time many times I don't even use that choke when I use that gun so expect to die from a shotgun within 15 meters, Bursts should go for the head (maybe slightly less recoil on prowler burst mode? Or a barrel attachment to do so?) And use cover more for Christ's sake, you can't run out with a flatline miss a 3rd of your clip and expect not to be punished for it. I've killed good wingman users many times, I've killed good peacekeeper users many times. Good aim, tactics, learning what guns aire oder the what, and also gee come to think of it ITS A BATTLE ROYALE BASED OF GETTING GOOD LOOT, a full set up wingman will perform better than an automatic weapon with no barrel or stock attatchment.

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The Wingman and Peacekeeper are objectively overpowered","moderationData":{"__ref":"ModerationData:moderation_data:8537486"},"body":"I agree with your statement about this guns I got killed with 2 or more hits from both of these 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The Wingman and Peacekeeper are objectively overpowered","moderationData":{"__ref":"ModerationData:moderation_data:8537488"},"body":"only the with the wingmen I had not weapons or armor so my felt it takes 5,6, or more give or 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1 lucky shot isn't a reason to nerfind a gun. I've been killed by people with spitfires, wingmans, alternators, peackeepers, etc. If you aim good aimed get the drop on some they will lose. If I'm fighting 2 people, hit 1 heads hot with skull piercer and 4 body shots and 2 misses which is common for 6 shots, those 2 are still alive and have had over 2 seconds to kill me. If you miss you die, we can't just nerd everything because it kills people, next you'll be complaining aimed boutique he r99, or the hemlok.

","body@stripHtml({\"removeProcessingText\":false,\"removeSpoilerMarkup\":false,\"removeTocMarkup\":false,\"truncateLength\":200})@stringLength":"203","kudosSumWeight":0,"postTime":"2019-02-24T15:35:07.488-08:00","lastPublishTime":"2019-02-24T15:35:07.488-08:00","metrics":{"__typename":"MessageMetrics","views":918},"visibilityScope":"PUBLIC","placeholder":false,"showMoveIndicator":false,"originalMessageForPlaceholder":null,"isEscalated":null,"solution":false,"replies":{"__typename":"MessageConnection","pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null},"edges":[{"__typename":"MessageEdge","cursor":"MjUuNHwyLjF8aXwzfDM5OjF8aW50LDg1Mzc0OTIsODUzNzQ5Mg","node":{"__ref":"ForumReplyMessage:message:8537492"}}]},"customFields":[],"attachments":{"__typename":"AttachmentConnection","edges":[],"pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null}}},"ModerationData:moderation_data:8537492":{"__typename":"ModerationData","id":"moderation_data:8537492","status":"APPROVED","rejectReason":null,"isReportedAbuse":false,"rejectUser":null,"rejectTime":null,"rejectActorType":null},"ForumReplyMessage:message:8537492":{"__typename":"ForumReplyMessage","author":{"__ref":"User:user:2611586"},"id":"message:8537492","entityType":"FORUM_REPLY","eventPath":"category:apex-legends-en/category:ea-forums-en/community:tghpe58374board:apex-legends-feedback-en/message:8537475/message:8537492","revisionNum":1,"uid":8537492,"depth":6,"hasGivenKudo":false,"subscribed":false,"board":{"__ref":"Forum:board:apex-legends-feedback-en"},"parent":{"__ref":"ForumReplyMessage:message:8537489"},"conversation":{"__ref":"Conversation:conversation:8537475"},"subject":"Re: The Wingman and Peacekeeper are objectively overpowered","moderationData":{"__ref":"ModerationData:moderation_data:8537492"},"body":"Please don’t post here your opinion adds nothing of value.","body@stripHtml({\"removeProcessingText\":false,\"removeSpoilerMarkup\":false,\"removeTocMarkup\":false,\"truncateLength\":200})@stringLength":"58","kudosSumWeight":0,"repliesCount":0,"postTime":"2019-02-24T15:44:37.478-08:00","lastPublishTime":"2019-02-24T15:44:37.478-08:00","metrics":{"__typename":"MessageMetrics","views":916},"visibilityScope":"PUBLIC","placeholder":false,"showMoveIndicator":false,"originalMessageForPlaceholder":null,"isEscalated":null,"solution":false,"replies":{"__typename":"MessageConnection","pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null},"edges":[]},"customFields":[],"attachments":{"__typename":"AttachmentConnection","edges":[],"pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null}}},"ModerationData:moderation_data:8537490":{"__typename":"ModerationData","id":"moderation_data:8537490","status":"APPROVED","rejectReason":null,"isReportedAbuse":false,"rejectUser":null,"rejectTime":null,"rejectActorType":null},"ForumReplyMessage:message:8537490":{"__typename":"ForumReplyMessage","author":{"__ref":"User:user:2587968"},"id":"message:8537490","entityType":"FORUM_REPLY","eventPath":"category:apex-legends-en/category:ea-forums-en/community:tghpe58374board:apex-legends-feedback-en/message:8537475/message:8537490","revisionNum":1,"uid":8537490,"depth":5,"hasGivenKudo":false,"subscribed":false,"board":{"__ref":"Forum:board:apex-legends-feedback-en"},"parent":{"__ref":"ForumReplyMessage:message:8537484"},"conversation":{"__ref":"Conversation:conversation:8537475"},"subject":"Re: The Wingman and Peacekeeper are objectively overpowered","moderationData":{"__ref":"ModerationData:moderation_data:8537490"},"body":"

That's the same argument that made snipers in call of duty horrible now in black ops 4, people complain about dying, frankly I have no problem using or fighting against either weapon. My only complaint is that some guns aren't strong enough, but to be fair that's to be expected in a br game, it's about loot.

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And also \"overpowered\" is a very objective term, the way I see it revolvers firing heavy ammo are meant to hit hard, lever action shotguns 5 feet away are meant to hit hard. 9mm pistol like the p2020 maybe not so much.

","body@stripHtml({\"removeProcessingText\":false,\"removeSpoilerMarkup\":false,\"removeTocMarkup\":false,\"truncateLength\":200})@stringLength":"203","kudosSumWeight":0,"postTime":"2019-02-24T15:38:46.131-08:00","lastPublishTime":"2019-02-24T15:38:46.131-08:00","metrics":{"__typename":"MessageMetrics","views":917},"visibilityScope":"PUBLIC","placeholder":false,"showMoveIndicator":false,"originalMessageForPlaceholder":null,"isEscalated":null,"solution":false,"replies":{"__typename":"MessageConnection","pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null},"edges":[{"__typename":"MessageEdge","cursor":"MjUuNHwyLjF8aXwzfDM5OjF8aW50LDg1Mzc0OTMsODUzNzQ5Mw","node":{"__ref":"ForumReplyMessage:message:8537493"}}]},"attachments":{"__typename":"AttachmentConnection","edges":[],"pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null}},"customFields":[]},"ModerationData:moderation_data:8537493":{"__typename":"ModerationData","id":"moderation_data:8537493","status":"APPROVED","rejectReason":null,"isReportedAbuse":false,"rejectUser":null,"rejectTime":null,"rejectActorType":null},"ForumReplyMessage:message:8537493":{"__typename":"ForumReplyMessage","uid":8537493,"id":"message:8537493","entityType":"FORUM_REPLY","eventPath":"category:apex-legends-en/category:ea-forums-en/community:tghpe58374board:apex-legends-feedback-en/message:8537475/message:8537493","revisionNum":1,"author":{"__ref":"User:user:2611586"},"readOnly":false,"repliesCount":1,"depth":6,"hasGivenKudo":false,"subscribed":false,"board":{"__ref":"Forum:board:apex-legends-feedback-en"},"parent":{"__ref":"ForumReplyMessage:message:8537491"},"conversation":{"__ref":"Conversation:conversation:8537475"},"subject":"Re: The Wingman and Peacekeeper are objectively overpowered","moderationData":{"__ref":"ModerationData:moderation_data:8537493"},"body":"Guy doesn’t get it. Shotguns 5 feet away is fine. The jump up on peacekeeper = charge up and slug shot snipe on top of idiot proof ttk up close.","body@stripHtml({\"removeProcessingText\":false,\"removeSpoilerMarkup\":false,\"removeTocMarkup\":false,\"truncateLength\":200})@stringLength":"144","kudosSumWeight":0,"postTime":"2019-02-24T15:45:40.070-08:00","lastPublishTime":"2019-02-24T15:45:40.070-08:00","metrics":{"__typename":"MessageMetrics","views":915},"visibilityScope":"PUBLIC","placeholder":false,"showMoveIndicator":false,"originalMessageForPlaceholder":null,"isEscalated":null,"solution":false,"replies":{"__typename":"MessageConnection","pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null},"edges":[{"__typename":"MessageEdge","cursor":"MjUuNHwyLjF8aXwxfDM5OjF8aW50LDg1Mzc0OTQsODUzNzQ5NA","node":{"__ref":"ForumReplyMessage:message:8537494"}}]},"attachments":{"__typename":"AttachmentConnection","edges":[],"pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null}},"customFields":[]},"ModerationData:moderation_data:8537494":{"__typename":"ModerationData","id":"moderation_data:8537494","status":"APPROVED","rejectReason":null,"isReportedAbuse":false,"rejectUser":null,"rejectTime":null,"rejectActorType":null},"ForumReplyMessage:message:8537494":{"__typename":"ForumReplyMessage","author":{"__ref":"User:user:1663155"},"id":"message:8537494","entityType":"FORUM_REPLY","eventPath":"category:apex-legends-en/category:ea-forums-en/community:tghpe58374board:apex-legends-feedback-en/message:8537475/message:8537494","revisionNum":1,"uid":8537494,"depth":7,"hasGivenKudo":false,"subscribed":false,"board":{"__ref":"Forum:board:apex-legends-feedback-en"},"parent":{"__ref":"ForumReplyMessage:message:8537493"},"conversation":{"__ref":"Conversation:conversation:8537475"},"subject":"Re: The Wingman and Peacekeeper are objectively overpowered","moderationData":{"__ref":"ModerationData:moderation_data:8537494"},"body":"Ok, his opinion is valid, it's just misunderstanding the idea of what the problem is. Simply put really even if our suggestions are wrong, even if what we think is broken about the guns are wrong. There is still very clearly a balance issue when all anyone tries to get and use is peacekeepers and wingmans.

The evidence is there, and maybe we are wrong about why or what specifically, but there is definitely something wrong here. I've watched so many players on my own team just grab a wingman, grab a peacekeeper, and then stop for nothing and gun down literally everyone that comes across his path.

If some guy who's played the game non stop since it came out, can run around with these two guns and suffer no challenge at all fighting upwards of 8 people at once, then there is clearly something wrong.","body@stripHtml({\"removeProcessingText\":false,\"removeSpoilerMarkup\":false,\"removeTocMarkup\":false,\"truncateLength\":200})@stringLength":"203","kudosSumWeight":2,"repliesCount":0,"postTime":"2019-02-24T17:14:43.616-08:00","lastPublishTime":"2019-02-24T17:14:43.616-08:00","metrics":{"__typename":"MessageMetrics","views":900},"visibilityScope":"PUBLIC","placeholder":false,"showMoveIndicator":false,"originalMessageForPlaceholder":null,"isEscalated":null,"solution":false,"attachments":{"__typename":"AttachmentConnection","edges":[],"pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null}},"customFields":[]}}}},"page":"/forums/ForumMessagePage/ForumMessagePage","query":{"boardId":"apex-legends-feedback-en","messageSubject":"the-wingman-and-peacekeeper-are-objectively-overpowered","messageId":"8537475","replyId":"8537484"},"buildId":"3XH0qYWYCnEYycuN5W4S8","runtimeConfig":{"buildInformationVisible":false,"logLevelApp":"info","appLogLevelOverrides":"pageCacheMiddleware=debug","logLevelMetrics":"info","surveysEnabled":true,"openTelemetry":{"clientEnabled":false,"configName":"eaaurora","serviceVersion":"25.4.0","universe":"prod","collector":"http://localhost:4318","logLevel":"error","routeChangeAllowedTime":"5000","headers":"","enableDiagnostic":"false","maxAttributeValueLength":"4095"},"apolloDevToolsEnabled":false,"quiltLazyLoadThreshold":"3"},"isFallback":false,"isExperimentalCompile":false,"dynamicIds":["components_seo_QAPageSchema","components_community_Navbar_NavbarWidget","components_community_Breadcrumb_BreadcrumbWidget","components_messages_TopicWithThreadedReplyListWidget","components_nodes_NodeInformationWidget","components_featured_content_FeaturedContentWidget","components_messages_MessageListForNodeByRecentActivityWidget","components_customComponent_CustomComponent","components_languages_LanguagePicker","components_messages_MessageView_MessageViewStandard","components_messages_EscalatedMessageBanner","components_nodes_NodeView","components_nodes_NodeView_NodeViewCard","shared_client_components_common_List_ListGroup","components_messages_MessageView","components_messages_MessageView_MessageViewInline","shared_client_components_common_Pager_PagerLoadMore","components_customComponent_CustomComponentContent_TemplateContent","shared_client_components_common_List_UnwrappedList","components_tags_TagView","components_tags_TagView_TagViewChip","shared_client_components_common_List_UnstyledList"],"appGip":true,"scriptLoader":[]}