Re: Why do doors in Kadara Port take so long to open?

by jpkarlsen
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Original Post

Re: Why do doors in Kadara Port take so long to open?

Champion (Retired)

Consoles are cheap to buy but on the other hand games are much more expensive than their PC versions much like Printers are cheap but ink costs more than the most expensive champagne. Measured over time you probably end up with much the same price overall. Without the benefits that are inherent in a PC.

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Message 21 of 28 (666 Views)

Re: Why do doors in Kadara Port take so long to open?

★ Pro

@jpkarlsen wrote:

Consoles are cheap to buy but on the other hand games are much more expensive than their PC versions much like Printers are cheap but ink costs more than the most expensive champagne. Measured over time you probably end up with much the same price overall. Without the benefits that are inherent in a PC.


Care to elaborate?

 

I spend about 1000 bucks a year upgrading my PC. How would I spend more on that with a console? I know the games are more expensive but then I don't buy 50 games a year either.

Message 22 of 28 (659 Views)

Re: Why do doors in Kadara Port take so long to open?

[ Edited ]
★ Guide

@EgoMania wrote:

@jpkarlsen wrote:

Consoles are cheap to buy but on the other hand games are much more expensive than their PC versions much like Printers are cheap but ink costs more than the most expensive champagne. Measured over time you probably end up with much the same price overall. Without the benefits that are inherent in a PC.


Care to elaborate?

 

I spend about 1000 bucks a year upgrading my PC. How would I spend more on that with a console? I know the games are more expensive but then I don't buy 50 games a year either.


Your doing it wrong. The point of a good PC system is that it doesn't require upgrading within the same lifetime as the "current" console hardware. By upgrading yearly, your effectively wasting money on excess computing power you cannot use 99% of the time due to inefficient coding.

 

@For example I myself built this system several years ago, (i7 4770k/8gbRAM/R9 270). The only upgrades I require is a new card and maybe more ram. The CPU is only taxed in two games I have, both of which are extremely heavy simulation systems (FSX @ JFK airport / Cities Skyline - Pop 100k). With a new card, I can easily game at 1080p 60fps with the latest games. As I am siting at my PC and less than 2ft from a screen, any display larger than a 22" is actually a bad idea due to FoV issues with the scale of the display.

 

My system costs me under £700 (UK) almost 4 years ago and PC games (apart from MEA) are cheaper here than console titles by around 1/3. With no online fees required either, in that 4 year period I have saved money compared to owning and purchasing for a console. I can directly compare my spending to my pals Xb1 ownership. I have more titles, a better system, with no online fees required (unless I decide to sub to something) and have saved in the order of £500 compared to his spend in 4 years on games, Gold membership, DLC and other content on Live!.

 

So for a small upgrade in a GPU now (eg 470x/570x) , I can and will have again a better system and retain the rest of the hardware as it is not yet taxed to its fullest. This gives me another 2-4 years at least with even greater savings again (in direct comparison) if my mate gets the new Xbox X for christmas (as tends to be the case for most). At which time since I have a K variant I can simply overclock to a higher frequency and regain some "lost" computing power compared to newer cpu's. The chip has already clocked to 4.5ghz, but I run it currently at 4ghz 24/7 for simplicity and ease of maintenance.

 

So my total hardware spend for 8 years(ish) is under £1000 UK sterling. £700 on the initial system, £300 max for the upgrades.

Message 23 of 28 (652 Views)

Re: Why do doors in Kadara Port take so long to open?

Champion (Retired)

Hi @EgoMania

As @lexandro_Albion write you are doing it wrong. Apparently you are the type that must have the latest and greatest at all time but the reality is that you will not find games that can fully utilize that power. I have a 4 year old system that still performs very well in all games including ME:A. True I can't get 60 fps on Ultra settings but I get over 40 fps and that is enough. The system cost me around 1000$ at that time. The most cost effective when buying a new GPU is to go for the generation before the newest it will have fallen considerably in price and no current games or games in the next 2-3 years will really tax it. When GTX 1180 comes out I can likely get a 1080 for about a quarter of its current price. My next planned upgrade will be CPU/MB + RAM probably early next year and that is expected to cost me around $500 given todays prices As with GPUs CPUs don't need to be the latest and greatest in practice you wont feel a difference between a I5 and an I7 running at the same frequency. Benchmark programs will of course show a difference but again no current games will benefit from it in real life.

 

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Please only PM me when asked to do so. Questions and answers belong here so everyone can benefit from them.
Message 24 of 28 (638 Views)

Re: Why do doors in Kadara Port take so long to open?

★ Pro

I would kindly ask you guys not to throw this "you're doing it wrong" * at me. It's such a cliché and a non-argument. I also don't buy all the latest stuff. I bought a GTX1070 forgoing the GTX1080 as it is. Listen, when it comes to ME:A on 1080p with less than high/ultra settings...it doesn't look nearly as good as how it looks now on my screen at 1440p. Once you've seen that...

 

Now clearly, I have higher standards for my PC and that's my choice but I personally think that playing on a 22" screen with 8GB RAM and subpar settings is going back to the stone age. Those differences in preference aside, the only thing that has been offered as argument to say that consoles are more expensive in the end is the price of games.

 

And all you have to do is not buy lots of games new on release and that argument falls apart completely. All those console games drop in price dramatically after a month or two these days. It's rare that you have to wait longer. So maybe other people are "doing it wrong" when it comes to buying games?

 

We can discuss forever whether or not I'm "doing it wrong" (which is a ridiculous discussion to have to begin with), but there still has been no evidence offered that really tells me that console gaming is more expensive. Especially with the Xbox One X coming out that will do 4k gaming for 499 bucks. You can't even get a graphics card for that price that can do that resolution decently.

 

So really, instead of attacking my standards for gaming, does anybody actually have a real argument that supports the statement that console gaming is more expensive in the end? Cause I haven't heard one yet and that was actually the question.

 

 

Message 25 of 28 (632 Views)

Re: Why do doors in Kadara Port take so long to open?

★ Guide

Hey dude chill out, it wasn#t an attack on you. Its a simple explanation on how, when budget is an issue, you can easily save money on PC gaming as opposed to console gaming. Really you need to take it down a notch or two, your acting like I kicked your cat or something.

 

In the context that was asked; "How do you save money, as opposed to how I (you in this case) do it". In that context, yes "your doing it wrong"; visa vi saving money. It is not a personal attack, its a simple matter of context.

 

Its the same as someone asking "How do you save money on your car insurance when I buy it from X at Z price every year". In a similar context the answer would be taking a policy every 4 years or more from a different vendor at a lower price point if your objective is to save money. I have offered first hand evidence of how I personally have saved money gaming on PC. Average retail cost are lower by a third or more, no online fee's, and a plethora of F2P games of pretty much every genre there is, and highly active mod community in multiple AAA titles.

 

As for MEA, the games performance is highly erratic regardless of the settings. I can easily get 60 fps on high settings at 1680x1050. The only trouble is the game chugs like crazy once I move around in some areas. Kadara is a prime example, as I can do Eos @60fps and not have a problem and on the same settings Kadara planetside is 20fps. And thats not forgetting the freeze issue the games engine has with Windows 10, where for people like myself I am required to disable fullscreen optimisations to stop the freezes.

 

Basing any "performance" argument on MEA is not a good argument. One would be better served using benchmarks of numerous other titles to ascertain performance of the system. And in that case, then I am still able to game at high/ultra settings in many other AAA titles not on the frostbite engine. As I said a simple gpu upgrade would suffice in this regard in my case for any titles that I feel warrant it. Also, no title I know of currently uses anymore than 4gb system RAM at any one time unless it has a severe memory leak. Rather GPU ram is much more capable and preferred instead of having to offload to system ram (therby slowing down performance).

Message 26 of 28 (624 Views)

Re: Why do doors in Kadara Port take so long to open?

★ Pro

Well, I just get annoyed at all this "you're doing it wrong" type comments so apologies if it wasn't meant as such, but to me it reads as an insult.

 

But let's leave that alone then, I accept that it wasn't your intent... but you really are missing my point still.

 

Budget isn't the issue, it's justifying the budget that's the issue. I can afford the upgrades. Ok maybe it's not 1000 bucks every year but between 500-1000 on average would be a fair estimate, but it stops being justifiable when a console is coming out that is going to do 4k graphics for less than the cost of a graphics card that can do that.

 

Now someone stated that over time you end up spending just as much on a console as on a PC. That's still not clear to me. A console costs like 300 bucks. A game PC about 1000 and that's not a high estimate. I am talking Euros here, not pounds.

 

You guys seem to be happy to muck about for about 4 years with it with just some minimal upgrades here and there. So even from that low end perspective, I just can't see how he can say that console gaming ends up being just as expensive. If you watch cost like you guys seem to do and accept lower settings, then surely, you're not going to throw those principles overboard when it comes to buying games, are you?

 

So let's not focus on the explanations and side issues, but is there anyone that can really make a realistic case that console gaming is just as expensive as pc gaming over the long run, even from your perspective on PCs?

 

I mean, that's a hell of a lot of console games that you'd have to buy full price to make up for the difference between the hardware costs of a PC and a console. 

 

 

 

 

Message 27 of 28 (616 Views)

Re: Why do doors in Kadara Port take so long to open?

★ Guide

As I said it depends on your criteria.

 

You can for example get near identical hardware specs to the current Xb1 and make a tower with it. The majority of people these days don't actually use disc based media, as internet speeds have increased so has digital delivery methods. So on a costs based solution one can dispense with a blue-ray player. One can easily stream high def video content online in similar formats to blue ray discs with the same quality. For games that translates to digital downloads, and for a PC that's very easy to do at no extra cost.

 

So right off the bat, you save on the price of the Blue-Ray player as its now surplus to requirements. So that means you can shuffle the savings around on a better cpu or gpu for your "xbox - alike" tower. In "PC gaming" terms its not exactly "high spec", but its a direct equivalent and should perform at similar if not better levels. If one then factors in that buying parts at a lower price point, due to said hardware being older than current PC latests generation thats more savings to be had.

 

I have not priced it specifically but I would assume, given previous experience in making my own systems that costs would be comparable to or less than the consoles asking price. And it would have full internet connectivity as standard and not require an additional fee for "network connection". At this stage the PC owner does not have to pay a single penny to play games, as there are numerous well known and highly rated F2P games available of every genre.

 

So on "pure" savings as the prime focus it can easily be done. Of course it depends on your geographical location, and the costs there in. In EU/US it should be viable as there are many suppliers in both territories.

Message 28 of 28 (606 Views)